Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cWnVn-0007fV-6s for pgadmin-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 17:07:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cWnVm-0002QL-BG for pgadmin-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 17:07:02 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cWnVX-0002AN-2n for pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 17:06:47 +0000 Received: from mail-io0-x235.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c06::235]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cWnVS-0007Ns-63 for pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 17:06:46 +0000 Received: by mail-io0-x235.google.com with SMTP id v96so41559654ioi.0 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 09:06:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pgadmin-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rGfWqngZi/PAK5FNnu0JSQ7TtyFvyRyBiwJChpmS1oM=; b=KdJLyUveykHke8H66ke9gabAWnpRJOyXL9GGqKNE42z3rkqbdvCS4/oYweOgkNLR1/ O1G3dvtgLIHMcWMMT+iJ5rxpSOHACjDLDraSoLsXXokZfp9cToooM7hsRoDoiKkVu841 L5A+ui8qA4uuJQpE09AgNAAktsFHRVlV42gv5lYmJUa5ij+iTngIRbO3SihApRjhEncR qjyCN4WZMzpKCz3zToFx8RcjFyj83+GfWebBY28amII2fOwjLiu9OCejOgddBl9SNBDU 7rNTkqLli5g1ZJ/32pJuE1+MFcd5k7PL7zfhrrtqtP4S4HqrXCzby3NIQD0vWBD4AR5V 8Llw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rGfWqngZi/PAK5FNnu0JSQ7TtyFvyRyBiwJChpmS1oM=; b=oIShzzdBorNCiidJo2cAkHXPA1ZR6lFNp2S0XtFyy3gy/jGweDX/G2ewS2ke3pHT1R a3S0jEWZ9OPhkLRMMCTts42dI3GnIOGUzNIyx7F3ifCNSQanbOMjUQY7dXX4GjuuQYC2 qL6Iv2oAwzWtUbse5aNwNVCmuOrDoWliXT+2suG7IEmeyh5ZRJtd6d11L5nHe0XtEIee D70pof6qXNoiqERj9WZYLoAd7O33GJaNi+03hnUx4ULl3EHKV9DgxzW+9BQQzzGFS3Cb MH4Mx1pXHq3vGUfzeVh+CmXR8LI1p5xlVjR9vW+ULyS6YTPnDfMVL+5E6X5nB5LGmg2E odng== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLUqQiJKLCRNiopYgARsm7LqU3/4fFPeSMfC4w6wqUArhdu+gGMpRUHRt7ztt7l3GRFr22cIl/L7sUHrA== X-Received: by 10.107.11.27 with SMTP id v27mr3809560ioi.145.1485450400286; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 09:06:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.64.224.198 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 09:06:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Dave Page Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 17:06:39 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: User Research Findings into PgAdmin To: Raffi Holzer Cc: Robert Eckhardt , pgadmin-hackers , Shirley Wang , Edgar Gonzalez Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113f828870f1d50547025f95 X-Pg-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) List-Archive: List-Help: List-ID: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Mailing-List: pgadmin-hackers Precedence: bulk Sender: pgadmin-hackers-owner@postgresql.org --001a113f828870f1d50547025f95 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Raffi Holzer wrote: > Hi Dave, > Thanks for the feedback. This is all great! > > We are actually interested in doing a bit more user testing in order to > validate the right solutions and then picking up these features ourselves. > We can definitely still put them in the redmine backlog and pick them up > from there though. Looking forward to working on al this. > Cool - yes, you generate work, you get to do some of it :-p. Please do put everything in Redmine though, as that's what we use for change tracking. Thanks! > > On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 6:14 AM, Dave Page wrote: > >> Hi >> >> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Raffi Holzer wrote: >> >>> As a summary of our findings in writing: >>> >>> Below is a table of user needs we discovered and solutions we or the >>> customers suggested. Some of the "missing" features people complained about >>> are not missing at all (such as auto-complete or syntax highlighting) but >>> the fact that people didn't know about them points to a discoverability >>> issue we believe we can address through design. >>> >>> >>> Needs >>> >>> Suggested Solutions >>> >>> Users need a reliable way to save their queries frequently >>> >>> Autosave, Persisting & Complete History, Persisting Un-run queries after >>> disconnect >>> >> >> Please add feature requests for: >> >> - Auto-saving of queries (I believe this would implement persisting >> un-run queries as well). >> >> - Saving of previous queries (implemented in pgAdmin III as a combo box >> at the top of the editor) >> >> >> >>> Users need a more efficient way to type >>> >>> Auto-discoverable Autocomplete, Customize shortcuts, more visible syntax >>> highlighting >>> >> >> Please add feature requests for: >> >> - Hint mechanism, to display balloon hints that can be triggered during >> certain tasks to inform the user of functionality they might want to use >> >> - Customisable shortcuts (a panel under Preferences -> [Tool Name] to >> allow customisation of shortcuts in each tool) >> >> - Customisable syntax highlight colours >> >> >> >>> Users need a process to share query output with others >>> >>> Copy and Paste into Excel with proper formatting, Export button to MS XML >>> >> >> Please add a feature request for: >> >> - Allow customisation of the data copy formatting as found in pgAdmin >> III. The defaults should be changed to not quote strings and use a tab as >> the delimiter to allow pasting into Excel/Numbers. Note that tabs cannot be >> represented in TSV data, so we need to deal with that and warn the user. >> Pasting back into pgAdmin also needs to support format changes. >> >> - Add a drop-down menu to the Export button that the user can use to >> select data format (the default remaining CSV). This can include XML, JSON >> and the user-defined copy format (per above). >> >> >>> Users need a way to quickly input content into pgAdmin >>> >>> Edit within graphic table >>> >> >> I don't understand that - you can already add/edit/delete data in a grid. >> >> >>> Users need query output to be stored to reuse results >>> >>> Results stored in history >>> >> >> Typically users would use multiple query tool windows for that. Saving >> the results in the history doesn't seem feasible - they can easily run into >> 10s of MB or more. >> >> >>> Users need an easier way to find saved queries >>> >>> Workspace, Search >>> >> >> This would need much more definition. In pgAdmin III we had Macros that >> allowed you to insert standard queries you had saved in response to a >> shortcut key, and Favourites that allowed you to store a library of >> favourite queries and load or inject them into the editor. Plus of course, >> you can save queries to the file system. What would help here? >> >> Oh, and before you ask: https://redmine.postgresql.org/projects/pgadmin4/ >> issues/new :-) >> >> Thanks. >> >> >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Robert Eckhardt >>> wrote: >>> >>>> My main concern is making the right decisions on what to change, and >>>>> focussing efforts in the areas where we gain most benefit. Of course, >>>>> the resources to do the work are also critical - the current team >>>>> already have a good years worth of work in various additional features >>>>> and improvements. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Absolutely our concern as well which is why we don't want to work in a >>>> vacuum. >>>> >>>> -- Rob >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dave Page >>>>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com >>>>> Twitter: @pgsnake >>>>> >>>>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com >>>>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Raffi Holzer >>> Product Manager >>> Pivotal Labs >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Dave Page >> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com >> Twitter: @pgsnake >> >> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com >> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company >> > > > > -- > Raffi Holzer > Product Manager > Pivotal Labs > -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company --001a113f828870f1d50547025f95 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Raffi Holzer <<= a href=3D"mailto:rholzer@pivotal.io" target=3D"_blank">rholzer@pivotal.io> wrote:
Hi = Dave,
=C2=A0Thanks for the feedback. This is all great!

<= /div>
We are actually interested in doing a bit more user testing in or= der to validate the right solutions and then picking up these features ours= elves. We can definitely still put them in the redmine backlog and pick the= m up from there though. Looking forward to working on al this.
<= /blockquote>

Cool - yes, you generate work, you get to d= o some of it :-p. Please do put everything in Redmine though, as that's= what we use for change tracking.

Thanks!

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 6:14 AM, Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org&= gt; wrote:
Hi
=

On Wed, Jan= 25, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Raffi Holzer <rholzer@pivotal.io> wro= te:
A= s a summary of our findings in writing:=C2=A0

Below is a= table of user needs we discovered and solutions we or the customers sugges= ted. Some of the "missing" features people complained about are n= ot missing at all (such as auto-complete or syntax highlighting) but the fa= ct that people didn't know about them points to a discoverability issue= we believe we can address through design.
=C2=A0

Needs

Suggested Solutions

Users need a reliable way to save thei= r queries frequently

Autosave= , Persisting & Complete History, Persisting Un-run queries after discon= nect


Please add feature requests for:

- Auto-saving of queries (I believe this would implement persisting= un-run queries as well).

- Saving of previous que= ries (implemented in pgAdmin III as a combo box at the top of the editor)

=C2=A0

Us= ers need a more efficient way to type

Auto-discoverable Autocomplete, Customize shortcuts, more visible= syntax highlighting


Please add feature requests for:

- Hint mechanism, to display balloon hints that= can be triggered during certain tasks to inform the user of functionality = they might want to use

- Customisable shortcuts (a= panel under Preferences -> [Tool Name] to allow customisation of shortc= uts in each tool)

- Customisable syntax highlight = colours

=C2=A0

Users need a process to share query output with others

Copy and Paste into Excel with proper form= atting, Export button to MS XML

=

Please add a feature re= quest for:

- Allow customisation of the data copy = formatting as found in pgAdmin III. The defaults should be changed to not q= uote strings and use a tab as the delimiter to allow pasting into Excel/Num= bers. Note that tabs cannot be represented in TSV data, so we need to deal = with that and warn the user. Pasting back into pgAdmin also needs to suppor= t format changes.

- Add a drop-down menu to the Ex= port button that the user can use to select data format (the default remain= ing CSV). This can include XML, JSON and the user-defined copy format (per = above).
=C2=A0

I don't= understand that - you can already add/edit/delete data in a grid.
=C2=A0

Users ne= ed a way to quickly input content into pgAdmin

Edit within graphic table

<= tr style=3D"height:40px">

Users need query output = to be stored to reuse results

Results stored in history


Typically users would use mu= ltiple query tool windows for that. Saving the results in the history doesn= 't seem feasible - they can easily run into 10s of MB or more.
=C2=A0
<= tr style=3D"height:40px">

Users need an easier way= to find saved queries

=

<= span style=3D"font-size:18.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);backgr= ound-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Worksp= ace, Search


This would need much more definition. In pg= Admin III we had Macros that allowed you to insert standard queries you had= saved in response to a shortcut key, and Favourites that allowed you to st= ore a library of favourite queries and load or inject them into the editor.= Plus of course, you can save queries to the file system. What would help h= ere?


Thanks.
=C2=A0

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Robert Eckhardt <re= ckhardt@pivotal.io> wrote:
My= main concern is making the right decisions on what to change, and
focussing efforts in the areas where we gain most benefit. Of course,
the resources to do the work are also critical - the current team
already have a good years worth of work in various additional features
and improvements.

Absolutely our= concern as well which is why we don't want to work in a vacuum.=C2=A0<= /div>

-- Rob
=C2=A0

--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company




--
Raffi Holzer
Product Manager
Pivotal Labs



--
= Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB = UK: http://www.en= terprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company



--
Raffi Holzer
Product Manager
Pivotal Labs=



--
=
Dave Page=
Blog: http://= pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprised= b.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
--001a113f828870f1d50547025f95--