Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cWOrv-0000kK-HT for pgadmin-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:48:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cWOrv-0005vm-4V for pgadmin-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:48:15 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:1501:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cWOrh-0005R7-3z for pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:48:01 +0000 Received: from mail-vk0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400c:c05::231]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cWOrd-0001wQ-PP for pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:47:59 +0000 Received: by mail-vk0-x231.google.com with SMTP id x75so134955438vke.2 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 06:47:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pivotal-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HSCsH4eEsJZc3wxQ7aTr/6KGEXiTGH3jSOgUou+NPNE=; b=g4zSm4xKTAfSnzaf91B1Zpcp7KFd+e9wlDsvM8edGSJrvfUjYUi0E+oj7ys5sYBWZO h/0kLmNzrKKMTIrG2aFbSliyFttcNqSk4Le0y4QiOMD8f5LdhYw3Y+xLRXil8WKO5x2z ohLTg/XKJ6xVuyZPxOYmIwTtIu6Wtpi+z0HZe76s7n6OP4FGadneAszIi/2XepLN+THY csn5Tr4rYAR86DgpbnSkgyAbSkyeGueSVDlMFO6l9pDlMt9HUe36yS5BRSrwAWxSSJYo P3KhuC+L3DmqDcp/v3JWBQNPD7w4UUfAVAsWN0hm4Blx3zJwmMDGItGYBhThxXJBOPTg 41MQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HSCsH4eEsJZc3wxQ7aTr/6KGEXiTGH3jSOgUou+NPNE=; b=BoiDLt/wxST681PCxHtYZbt9roH4JXSvAE1ksJ5CqiMTGGAnaIRMIa8lYujxTxvgBK Xtf6bwkVOkZHAUQcUTF5KNqN91KpnmutUHV9/C7G8qKXSr3dCGJesSFaIgzPck5h29Kt U6IjtnDSLFsvmlIBfRL3QbNXWSWYnlh2fC2PoqpLPH6n2okh8+Nv1b6N5kbPKOp91Nzr ttBSe/oklWzb1DmOaHr6lX9qSwu87tIr2h4NP61ih+2Qr0CFbXJf/fdlz878VvGgr0DV 3t5DeyFJpEhxrhGBfbHjLpUB+milKAB0KuKWEeCNy8Q2oHo9KunKVoPJ83CZhPMDRTqN VlOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXKCAogmlo8Ghs3y3ky1B8XvEykwXKinJr42kLgPJ12oVeJU9t9W76F3CSywDbLBep9fTk2UM7jFFEWZEUzJ X-Received: by 10.31.167.70 with SMTP id q67mr18554494vke.135.1485355676505; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 06:47:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.81.35 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 06:47:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Robert Eckhardt Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 09:47:56 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: User Research Findings into PgAdmin To: Raffi Holzer Cc: Dave Page , pgadmin-hackers , Shirley Wang , Edgar Gonzalez Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11425fc276cb5d0546ec5123 X-Pg-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) List-Archive: List-Help: List-ID: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Mailing-List: pgadmin-hackers Precedence: bulk Sender: pgadmin-hackers-owner@postgresql.org --001a11425fc276cb5d0546ec5123 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 One of the surprises for me when looking at the interview notes was the number of features that people asked for that already existed. IMO one of the wins for design would be making these more easily discovered. As I see it a lot of the design is going to be fairly nuanced and having the conversation to include the community in the process of discovery and validation would be awesome if there is interest. -- Rob On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Raffi Holzer wrote: > Hi Dave, > We can definitely send a summary via email. Just to clarify those points > you brought up. Syntax highlighting definitely does exist and is totally > discoverable but people still seemed to miss it. Our best guess as to why > so many users miss it is because of the relatively small contrast in colors > (Navy vs black). Regarding autocomplete, despite it being documented, > almost none of the long time customers we spoke with knew it existed which > suggests they're not reading the documentation very closely or at all. > > Regarding the comments you mentioned, the one regarding column names was > talking about preserving the column name when moving data to Excel. And > I'll admit, the other comment is pretty unclear out of context. We probably > should not have included it as is. > > A summary of the findings will be forthcoming. > > On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 4:25 AM, Dave Page wrote: > >> Hi >> >> On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 9:42 PM, Raffi Holzer wrote: >> > Hi, >> > As part of a project to enable pgAdmin4 to work with Greenplum >> databases, >> > we conducted user research into pgAdmin. We wanted to share those >> insights >> > and potentially develop against them but first wanted to get feedback >> from >> > the pgAdmin group. To that end we created the video below that >> summarizes >> > our findings. Let us know what you think. >> > >> > https://youtu.be/BylcblYw8sU >> >> That's very helpful, thank you. Can you please summarise your findings >> in an email to the list so we can work with it within our normal >> process? >> >> I will note that whilst I agree some of the points raised need further >> work in pgAdmin 4, some of them make little sense - most notably >> Syntax Highlighting which we've had for ~17 years, and works >> automatically, thus not requiring any kind of user discovery beyond >> typing some SQL into the query tool. Auto-complete is another example >> of a feature we've had for years, that is documented. I agree though >> that there is scope for better discovery mechanisms there. >> >> Some of the other comments highlighted made little to no sense to me, >> for example the comment on column names @ ~3:03 and the comment on the >> bottom left @ ~3:22 (this is a great example of why email is better >> than a video :-) ). >> >> -- >> Dave Page >> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com >> Twitter: @pgsnake >> >> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com >> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company >> > > > > -- > Raffi Holzer > Product Manager > Pivotal Labs > --001a11425fc276cb5d0546ec5123 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One of the surprises for me when looking at the interview = notes was the number of features that people asked for that already existed= . IMO one of the wins for design would be making these more easily discover= ed. As I see it a lot of the design is going to be fairly nuanced and havin= g the conversation to include the community in the process of discovery and= validation would be awesome if there is interest.=C2=A0

-- Rob

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Raffi Holzer <rholzer@pivotal.io&g= t; wrote:
Hi Dave= ,=C2=A0
=C2=A0We can definitely send a summary via email. Just to clari= fy those points you brought up. Syntax highlighting definitely does exist a= nd is totally discoverable but people still seemed to miss it. Our best gue= ss as to why so many users miss it is because of the relatively small contr= ast in colors (Navy vs black). Regarding autocomplete, despite it being doc= umented, almost none of the long time customers we spoke with knew it exist= ed which suggests they're not reading the documentation very closely or= at all.

Regarding the comments you mentioned, the= one regarding column names was talking about preserving the column name wh= en moving data to Excel. And I'll admit, the other comment is pretty un= clear out of context. We probably should not have included it as is.
<= div>
A summary of the findings will be forthcoming.

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 4:25 AM, Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org&= gt; wrote:
Hi

On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 9:42 PM, Raffi Holzer <rholzer@pivotal.io> wrote:
> Hi,
>=C2=A0 As part of a project to enable pgAdmin4 to work with Greenplum d= atabases,
> we conducted user research into pgAdmin. We wanted to share those insi= ghts
> and potentially develop against them but first wanted to get feedback = from
> the pgAdmin group. To that end we created the video below that summari= zes
> our findings. Let us know what you think.
>
> https://youtu.be/BylcblYw8sU

That's very helpful, thank you. Can you please summarise your fi= ndings
in an email to the list so we can work with it within our normal
process?

I will note that whilst I agree some of the points raised need further
work in pgAdmin 4, some of them make little sense - most notably
Syntax Highlighting which we've had for ~17 years, and works
automatically, thus not requiring any kind of user discovery beyond
typing some SQL into the query tool. Auto-complete is another example
of a feature we've had for years, that is documented. I agree though that there is scope for better discovery mechanisms there.

Some of the other comments highlighted made little to no sense to me,
for example the comment on column names @ ~3:03 and the comment on the
bottom left @ ~3:22 (this is a great example of why email is better
than a video :-) ).

--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company



--
Raffi HolzerProduct Manager
Pivotal Labs

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