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From: Usman Khan <umk555@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 14:32:14 +0500
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 <CANVC+RHd+oKaY+_kJ8kx9dMpMb_vfbV+3pUe3Kg-u2a2-zPcWw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The new workspace layout
To: Anthony DeBarros <anthonymdebarros@gmail.com>
Cc: pgadmin-hackers <pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org>
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Hi Hackers,

Can providing accessibility keys be helpful for navigation between object
explorer and other workspaces and opened tabs?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2025 at 5:08=E2=80=AFPM Anthony DeBarros <anthonymdebarros@g=
mail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Hackers,
>
> I have great respect for your efforts to continuously develop pgAdmin 4,
> and it has certainly come a long way since version 1.0. Not to mention,
> it=E2=80=99s free.  Thank you for all your hard work.
>
> All that said, I think making the new Workspace layout the default in v
> 9.0 was a regression and not an improvement, and already I see issues[1]
> raised[2] from users.
>
> I use pgAdmin and DataGrip every day for writing queries, and I have a
> fundamental issue with the new layout. Having the object explorer in a pa=
ne
> to the left of the query editor is a standard setup, and rightly so =E2=
=80=94 it=E2=80=99s
> hard to remember names of tables and columns, and drag-and-drop makes lif=
e
> easier. Having a layout that requires me to click another pane and
> disappear the query itself, then click back, is too many steps.
> Autocomplete doesn=E2=80=99t fill the need.
>
> Yes, I understand I can switch to =E2=80=9CClassic,=E2=80=9D and I=E2=80=
=99ve done so. But I want
> to be an advocate for newer users and others who are upgrading and won=E2=
=80=99t
> really understand what=E2=80=99s going on, where in settings to change th=
e layout,
> etc.
>
> A more gentle user experience for this type of change would have been to
> have v 9.0 keep the =E2=80=9CClassic=E2=80=9D layout as the default and a=
lert users upon
> first launch that a new workspace layout was available =E2=80=94 and expl=
ain where
> in the settings to make the change. Small popups announcing new features
> are a standard UX feature these days.
>
> That way, people can move on from the familiar to the new and know that
> they can switch back if they=E2=80=99d like. Trust me when I tell you tha=
t many,
> many pgAdmin users are students and people new to SQL who need hand-holdi=
ng
> from time to time.
>
> Thanks for listening,
> Anthony
>
> [1]
> https://github.com/pgadmin-org/pgadmin4/issues/7708#issuecomment-26402964=
46
> [2] https://github.com/pgadmin-org/pgadmin4/issues/8426
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Hackers,</div><div><br></div><div>Can providing ac=
cessibility keys be helpful for navigation between object explorer and othe=
r workspaces and opened tabs?</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmai=
l_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 7, 202=
5 at 5:08=E2=80=AFPM Anthony DeBarros &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:anthonymdebarro=
s@gmail.com">anthonymdebarros@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Hackers,<=
div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I have great respect for your efforts to con=
tinuously develop pgAdmin 4, and it has certainly come a long way since ver=
sion 1.0. Not to mention, it=E2=80=99s free.=C2=A0 Thank you for all your h=
ard work.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">All that said, I=
 think making the new Workspace layout the default in v 9.0 was a regressio=
n and not an improvement, and already I see issues[1] raised[2] from users.=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I use pgAdmin and DataGri=
p every day for writing queries, and I have a fundamental issue with the ne=
w layout. Having the object explorer in a pane to the left of the query edi=
tor is a standard setup, and rightly so =E2=80=94 it=E2=80=99s hard to reme=
mber names of tables and columns, and drag-and-drop makes life easier. Havi=
ng a layout that requires me to click another pane and disappear the query =
itself, then click back, is too many steps. Autocomplete doesn=E2=80=99t fi=
ll the need.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Yes, I unders=
tand I can switch to =E2=80=9CClassic,=E2=80=9D and I=E2=80=99ve done so. B=
ut I want to be an advocate for newer users and others who are upgrading an=
d won=E2=80=99t really understand what=E2=80=99s going on, where in setting=
s to change the layout, etc.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">A more gentle user experience for this type of change would have been to=
 have v 9.0 keep the =E2=80=9CClassic=E2=80=9D layout as the default and al=
ert users upon first launch that a new workspace layout was available =E2=
=80=94 and explain where in the settings to make the change. Small popups a=
nnouncing new features are a standard UX feature these days.</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">That way, people can move on from the f=
amiliar to the new and know that they can switch back if they=E2=80=99d lik=
e. Trust me when I tell you that many, many pgAdmin users are students and =
people new to SQL who need hand-holding from time to time.</div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for listening,</div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">Anthony</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">[1]=C2=A0<a href=
=3D"https://github.com/pgadmin-org/pgadmin4/issues/7708#issuecomment-264029=
6446" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/pgadmin-org/pgadmin4/issues/7708=
#issuecomment-2640296446</a></div><div dir=3D"ltr">[2]=C2=A0<a href=3D"http=
s://github.com/pgadmin-org/pgadmin4/issues/8426" target=3D"_blank">https://=
github.com/pgadmin-org/pgadmin4/issues/8426</a></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

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