Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1thM6z-001S7O-6B for pgadmin-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2025 05:13:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1thM6v-002Qcc-HH for pgadmin-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2025 05:13:33 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1thM6v-002QcL-81 for pgadmin-hackers@lists.postgresql.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2025 05:13:33 +0000 Received: from mail-lj1-x233.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::233]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1thM6r-004smk-0Q for pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2025 05:13:31 +0000 Received: by mail-lj1-x233.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-308e3bd8286so12210711fa.1 for ; Sun, 09 Feb 2025 21:13:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=enterprisedb.com; s=google; t=1739164408; x=1739769208; darn=postgresql.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=4ciadlUwOIpARP8nNB/4wGJ8dReC2AYtvE9gAgHmm0g=; b=RjmiM6KxU1g3h90iTajYdd4QrYFyT0agNanMHonIx8oK7d/qlPy4v2f2CTfsOGe4U/ HAQRsEDFjuqNLiSQT/jkkIYZuNU3UicVSCsHobsYgX7wIy4uCGBfpsdzMtFdnLEpCtd6 XHS6R1xng/eSEwj9NAo0T9R27/GZqW4pwCOt66BOkGzHIDL2ouf3aPPEudGU0FegyaAQ FJrwt6JWxzjKHCJmgUOdIcubM/F68uY/FR8HA6LrED1OyHfBmdDeXcIkbWwbyTQlCqoU nsn/iQ1uFnzpIeJtJiCX4M+f7b0k1ktiPf6YbqpKXwlh/hJBTQdR2OdbAd54ZEZL4Z0K uZeQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1739164408; x=1739769208; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=4ciadlUwOIpARP8nNB/4wGJ8dReC2AYtvE9gAgHmm0g=; b=MAnB1ZQgNoKqwjIn+kPCIIHzOx2PUMDF/7c8JQclWKTAQYoV3mjBJuboGZ02AoMxgI ngvUTPXx8CC1NfZEg+7SRGxTefbGrSXSXuXuPIti9Ba/HvPnSEnro2LG6bCHq+jozVZY kKu9WWXDfRhi4U4bSR9MgNEOakngy4xuo9dkuknZn1uqB3lAvY4esFU35IUfXAlkNaGE iHjfiWrLFKzubiLoGDxtvLGtOq8W+mx8flimFoCTm3eYO8l20AhoxH0II/0/XfwKG89d H1rWYRsjjRbLR7ANsmrM04Q9JYPy989uMEeLfuue66CfMfzd7JwFmYw1emES1kKg8mjA BFWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxPd2ERJiWPqCuuwDyrScMZNg4mERihVxmVfYaJ7+gwGqTx+2EG DEPBW5QfPTP3jf6KqGtlZzVIk03tLb+n79JYt/hPQkBHLL9AxtdSa7IKnWAzDZd4lb8esxJeSYZ 59Xo9ujBVxIL2gkeyKu1dlJOXWaR6t6fA1VGC X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvt8qpdioEdk7DdL4UbUFckY4Jerdg5bHyFEKEoLpD7oB++OYoPoqzympwthK5 UyFq7Z1Hqm6XReLqHJDfDg8kdboi62u09ZS4sjTqxvInnLzLAtRGJgr4lW+F8GvAXupPAAo+uut ax7/y38caE7ECkIqrr9KiZ8goyYZHX X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFQ4KP2OG34R8OlYH+G+BGrkQF+LGsRZ2gpYvatXHlto3HzgsfUUdfkFJNjX990E1jVL7B7f54GynwcJFg40rE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:220b:b0:308:e9ae:b59c with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-308e9aeb74dmr11085471fa.28.1739164407933; Sun, 09 Feb 2025 21:13:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Akshay Joshi Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 10:43:16 +0530 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZlB7RoA_QnBdXxNkK4ppmTiXMDdN-kmX3tWRnr88ZkhJDgOlCnOgYkLQYw Message-ID: Subject: Re: The new workspace layout To: Anthony DeBarros Cc: pgadmin-hackers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bdc77b062dc2c4f8" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --000000000000bdc77b062dc2c4f8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Anthony We will definitely consider your suggestions for the future v9.1 release On Fri, Feb 7, 2025 at 5:38=E2=80=AFPM Anthony DeBarros wrote: > Dear Hackers, > > I have great respect for your efforts to continuously develop pgAdmin 4, > and it has certainly come a long way since version 1.0. Not to mention, > it=E2=80=99s free. Thank you for all your hard work. > > All that said, I think making the new Workspace layout the default in v > 9.0 was a regression and not an improvement, and already I see issues[1] > raised[2] from users. > > I use pgAdmin and DataGrip every day for writing queries, and I have a > fundamental issue with the new layout. Having the object explorer in a pa= ne > to the left of the query editor is a standard setup, and rightly so =E2= =80=94 it=E2=80=99s > hard to remember names of tables and columns, and drag-and-drop makes lif= e > easier. Having a layout that requires me to click another pane and > disappear the query itself, then click back, is too many steps. > Autocomplete doesn=E2=80=99t fill the need. > > Yes, I understand I can switch to =E2=80=9CClassic,=E2=80=9D and I=E2=80= =99ve done so. But I want > to be an advocate for newer users and others who are upgrading and won=E2= =80=99t > really understand what=E2=80=99s going on, where in settings to change th= e layout, > etc. > > A more gentle user experience for this type of change would have been to > have v 9.0 keep the =E2=80=9CClassic=E2=80=9D layout as the default and a= lert users upon > first launch that a new workspace layout was available =E2=80=94 and expl= ain where > in the settings to make the change. Small popups announcing new features > are a standard UX feature these days. > > That way, people can move on from the familiar to the new and know that > they can switch back if they=E2=80=99d like. Trust me when I tell you tha= t many, > many pgAdmin users are students and people new to SQL who need hand-holdi= ng > from time to time. > > Thanks for listening, > Anthony > > [1] > https://github.com/pgadmin-org/pgadmin4/issues/7708#issuecomment-26402964= 46 > [2] https://github.com/pgadmin-org/pgadmin4/issues/8426 > > > --000000000000bdc77b062dc2c4f8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Anthony

We will definitely cons= ider your suggestions for the future v9.1 release

On Fri, Feb 7, 2025 at 5:38=E2=80=AFPM Anthony DeBarros <anthonymdebarros@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
Dear Hackers,

I have great respect for= your efforts to continuously develop pgAdmin 4, and it has certainly come = a long way since version 1.0. Not to mention, it=E2=80=99s free.=C2=A0 Than= k you for all your hard work.

All that said, I think making the new Workspace layout the default in v= 9.0 was a regression and not an improvement, and already I see issues[1] r= aised[2] from users.

I use= pgAdmin and DataGrip every day for writing queries, and I have a fundament= al issue with the new layout. Having the object explorer in a pane to the l= eft of the query editor is a standard setup, and rightly so =E2=80=94 it=E2= =80=99s hard to remember names of tables and columns, and drag-and-drop mak= es life easier. Having a layout that requires me to click another pane and = disappear the query itself, then click back, is too many steps. Autocomplet= e doesn=E2=80=99t fill the need.

Yes, I understand I can switch to =E2=80=9CClassic,=E2=80=9D and I= =E2=80=99ve done so. But I want to be an advocate for newer users and other= s who are upgrading and won=E2=80=99t really understand what=E2=80=99s goin= g on, where in settings to change the layout, etc.
A more gentle user experience for this type of cha= nge would have been to have v 9.0 keep the =E2=80=9CClassic=E2=80=9D layout= as the default and alert users upon first launch that a new workspace layo= ut was available =E2=80=94 and explain where in the settings to make the ch= ange. Small popups announcing new features are a standard UX feature these = days.

That way, people can= move on from the familiar to the new and know that they can switch back if= they=E2=80=99d like. Trust me when I tell you that many, many pgAdmin user= s are students and people new to SQL who need hand-holding from time to tim= e.


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