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* open source ERD for postgresql database
@ 2008-09-12 13:59 Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
2008-09-12 14:24 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Barbara Stephenson @ 2008-09-12 13:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-admin
I would like to use an ERD tool for postgres and it be open source. Any
suggestions?
--
Regards,
Barbara Stephenson
EDI Specialist/Programmer
Turbo, division of Ozburn-Hessey Logistics
2251 Jesse Jewell Pkwy NE
Gainesville, GA 30507
tel: (678)989-3020 fax: (404)935-6171
barbara@turbocorp.com
www.ohlogistics.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: open source ERD for postgresql database
2008-09-12 13:59 open source ERD for postgresql database Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
@ 2008-09-12 14:24 ` Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>
2008-09-15 18:58 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Carol Walter <walterc@indiana.edu>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Thomas Jacob @ 2008-09-12 14:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>; +Cc: pgsql-admin
I've been using GNU ferret for a while, it's OK
for simple tasks, and can produce table graphs and
even output rudimentary PostgreSQL DDL in Version 0.6,
but it doesn't support PostgreSQL's full range of types yet
and the handling is somewhat awkward.
Version 0.7 looks much more promising, at least from
the screen shots, but that hasn't been release yet:
http://www.gnuferret.org/
On Fri, 2008-09-12 at 09:59 -0400, Barbara Stephenson wrote:
> I would like to use an ERD tool for postgres and it be open source. Any
> suggestions?
> --
> Regards,
>
> Barbara Stephenson
> EDI Specialist/Programmer
> Turbo, division of Ozburn-Hessey Logistics
> 2251 Jesse Jewell Pkwy NE
> Gainesville, GA 30507
> tel: (678)989-3020 fax: (404)935-6171
> barbara@turbocorp.com
> www.ohlogistics.com
>
Attachments:
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^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: open source ERD for postgresql database
2008-09-12 13:59 open source ERD for postgresql database Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
2008-09-12 14:24 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>
@ 2008-09-15 18:58 ` Carol Walter <walterc@indiana.edu>
2008-09-15 19:06 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Anibal David Acosta <aa@personal.net.py>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Carol Walter @ 2008-09-15 18:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>; +Cc: Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>; pgsql-admin
This sort of depends on what you want to do with the ERD. If I want
to document an existing system, I use Aqua Data Studio. It's not
free, but it will take an existing system and draw the ERD for you
based on the relationships it finds in the database. There are
things that I don't like about it. It puts the tables into the ERD
in alpha order. This leads to some spaghetti ERD's. You can move
the tables around and then save them. The problem is that once they
are saved, it's an image and you can't move them anymore. If you
recreate the ERD you have to begin again to move the tables around.
Another tool that some people like, but that I haven't used is called
SQL-EZ. It's cost is trivial.
Carol
On Sep 12, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Thomas Jacob wrote:
> I've been using GNU ferret for a while, it's OK
> for simple tasks, and can produce table graphs and
> even output rudimentary PostgreSQL DDL in Version 0.6,
> but it doesn't support PostgreSQL's full range of types yet
> and the handling is somewhat awkward.
>
> Version 0.7 looks much more promising, at least from
> the screen shots, but that hasn't been release yet:
>
> http://www.gnuferret.org/
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2008-09-12 at 09:59 -0400, Barbara Stephenson wrote:
>> I would like to use an ERD tool for postgres and it be open
>> source. Any
>> suggestions?
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Barbara Stephenson
>> EDI Specialist/Programmer
>> Turbo, division of Ozburn-Hessey Logistics
>> 2251 Jesse Jewell Pkwy NE
>> Gainesville, GA 30507
>> tel: (678)989-3020 fax: (404)935-6171
>> barbara@turbocorp.com
>> www.ohlogistics.com
>>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: open source ERD for postgresql database
2008-09-12 13:59 open source ERD for postgresql database Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
2008-09-12 14:24 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>
2008-09-15 18:58 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Carol Walter <walterc@indiana.edu>
@ 2008-09-15 19:06 ` Anibal David Acosta <aa@personal.net.py>
2008-09-15 19:34 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
2008-09-16 09:04 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>
2008-11-19 20:12 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Anibal David Acosta @ 2008-09-15 19:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Carol Walter' <walterc@indiana.edu>; 'Thomas Jacob' <jacob@internet24.de>; +Cc: 'Barbara Stephenson' <barbara@turbocorp.com>; pgsql-admin
MICRO-OLAP Database designer for postgres is a great tool.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org] En nombre de Carol Walter
Enviado el: lunes, 15 de septiembre de 2008 02:58 p.m.
Para: Thomas Jacob
CC: Barbara Stephenson; pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
Asunto: Re: [ADMIN] open source ERD for postgresql database
This sort of depends on what you want to do with the ERD. If I want
to document an existing system, I use Aqua Data Studio. It's not
free, but it will take an existing system and draw the ERD for you
based on the relationships it finds in the database. There are
things that I don't like about it. It puts the tables into the ERD
in alpha order. This leads to some spaghetti ERD's. You can move
the tables around and then save them. The problem is that once they
are saved, it's an image and you can't move them anymore. If you
recreate the ERD you have to begin again to move the tables around.
Another tool that some people like, but that I haven't used is called
SQL-EZ. It's cost is trivial.
Carol
On Sep 12, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Thomas Jacob wrote:
> I've been using GNU ferret for a while, it's OK
> for simple tasks, and can produce table graphs and
> even output rudimentary PostgreSQL DDL in Version 0.6,
> but it doesn't support PostgreSQL's full range of types yet
> and the handling is somewhat awkward.
>
> Version 0.7 looks much more promising, at least from
> the screen shots, but that hasn't been release yet:
>
> http://www.gnuferret.org/
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2008-09-12 at 09:59 -0400, Barbara Stephenson wrote:
>> I would like to use an ERD tool for postgres and it be open
>> source. Any
>> suggestions?
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Barbara Stephenson
>> EDI Specialist/Programmer
>> Turbo, division of Ozburn-Hessey Logistics
>> 2251 Jesse Jewell Pkwy NE
>> Gainesville, GA 30507
>> tel: (678)989-3020 fax: (404)935-6171
>> barbara@turbocorp.com
>> www.ohlogistics.com
>>
--
Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: open source ERD for postgresql database
2008-09-12 13:59 open source ERD for postgresql database Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
2008-09-12 14:24 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>
2008-09-15 18:58 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Carol Walter <walterc@indiana.edu>
2008-09-15 19:06 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Anibal David Acosta <aa@personal.net.py>
@ 2008-09-15 19:34 ` Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
2008-09-15 19:44 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Carol Walter <walterc@indiana.edu>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Barbara Stephenson @ 2008-09-15 19:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-admin; +Cc: Anibal David Acosta <aa@personal.net.py>; 'Carol Walter' <walterc@indiana.edu>; 'Thomas Jacob' <jacob@internet24.de>
Thank you all for your input. Yes I would like to get an ERD for an existing
system plus to create a new system.
All the ones recommended are any of them for Linux. Our database resides on
Redhat 4. I prefer free/open source so I can at least take a look to see if
it's user friendly. However, I know some do have a 30 day trial.
Barbara
Anibal David Acosta wrote:
> MICRO-OLAP Database designer for postgres is a great tool.
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org
> [mailto:pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org] En nombre de Carol Walter
> Enviado el: lunes, 15 de septiembre de 2008 02:58 p.m.
> Para: Thomas Jacob
> CC: Barbara Stephenson; pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
> Asunto: Re: [ADMIN] open source ERD for postgresql database
>
> This sort of depends on what you want to do with the ERD. If I want
> to document an existing system, I use Aqua Data Studio. It's not
> free, but it will take an existing system and draw the ERD for you
> based on the relationships it finds in the database. There are
> things that I don't like about it. It puts the tables into the ERD
> in alpha order. This leads to some spaghetti ERD's. You can move
> the tables around and then save them. The problem is that once they
> are saved, it's an image and you can't move them anymore. If you
> recreate the ERD you have to begin again to move the tables around.
> Another tool that some people like, but that I haven't used is called
> SQL-EZ. It's cost is trivial.
>
> Carol
>
> On Sep 12, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Thomas Jacob wrote:
> > I've been using GNU ferret for a while, it's OK
> > for simple tasks, and can produce table graphs and
> > even output rudimentary PostgreSQL DDL in Version 0.6,
> > but it doesn't support PostgreSQL's full range of types yet
> > and the handling is somewhat awkward.
> >
> > Version 0.7 looks much more promising, at least from
> > the screen shots, but that hasn't been release yet:
> >
> > http://www.gnuferret.org/
> >
> > On Fri, 2008-09-12 at 09:59 -0400, Barbara Stephenson wrote:
> >> I would like to use an ERD tool for postgres and it be open
> >> source. Any
> >> suggestions?
> >> --
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Barbara Stephenson
> >> EDI Specialist/Programmer
> >> Turbo, division of Ozburn-Hessey Logistics
> >> 2251 Jesse Jewell Pkwy NE
> >> Gainesville, GA 30507
> >> tel: (678)989-3020 fax: (404)935-6171
> >> barbara@turbocorp.com
> >> www.ohlogistics.com
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin
--
Regards,
Barbara Stephenson
EDI Specialist/Programmer
Turbo, division of Ozburn-Hessey Logistics
2251 Jesse Jewell Pkwy NE
Gainesville, GA 30507
tel: (678)989-3020 fax: (404)935-6171
barbara@turbocorp.com
www.ohlogistics.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: open source ERD for postgresql database
2008-09-12 13:59 open source ERD for postgresql database Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
2008-09-12 14:24 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>
2008-09-15 18:58 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Carol Walter <walterc@indiana.edu>
2008-09-15 19:06 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Anibal David Acosta <aa@personal.net.py>
2008-09-15 19:34 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
@ 2008-09-15 19:44 ` Carol Walter <walterc@indiana.edu>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Carol Walter @ 2008-09-15 19:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>; +Cc: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org, "Anibal David Acosta" <aa@personal.net.py>; 'Thomas Jacob' <jacob@internet24.de>
My databases are running on top of Solaris 10, but I don't think
RedHat should be a problem. Aqua Data Studio is one of the products
that allow you to do the trial version.
Carol
On Sep 15, 2008, at 3:34 PM, Barbara Stephenson wrote:
> Thank you all for your input. Yes I would like to get an ERD for
> an existing
> system plus to create a new system.
>
> All the ones recommended are any of them for Linux. Our database
> resides on
> Redhat 4. I prefer free/open source so I can at least take a look
> to see if
> it's user friendly. However, I know some do have a 30 day trial.
>
> Barbara
>
> Anibal David Acosta wrote:
>> MICRO-OLAP Database designer for postgres is a great tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Mensaje original-----
>> De: pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org
>> [mailto:pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org] En nombre de Carol Walter
>> Enviado el: lunes, 15 de septiembre de 2008 02:58 p.m.
>> Para: Thomas Jacob
>> CC: Barbara Stephenson; pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
>> Asunto: Re: [ADMIN] open source ERD for postgresql database
>>
>> This sort of depends on what you want to do with the ERD. If I want
>> to document an existing system, I use Aqua Data Studio. It's not
>> free, but it will take an existing system and draw the ERD for you
>> based on the relationships it finds in the database. There are
>> things that I don't like about it. It puts the tables into the ERD
>> in alpha order. This leads to some spaghetti ERD's. You can move
>> the tables around and then save them. The problem is that once they
>> are saved, it's an image and you can't move them anymore. If you
>> recreate the ERD you have to begin again to move the tables around.
>> Another tool that some people like, but that I haven't used is called
>> SQL-EZ. It's cost is trivial.
>>
>> Carol
>>
>> On Sep 12, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Thomas Jacob wrote:
>>> I've been using GNU ferret for a while, it's OK
>>> for simple tasks, and can produce table graphs and
>>> even output rudimentary PostgreSQL DDL in Version 0.6,
>>> but it doesn't support PostgreSQL's full range of types yet
>>> and the handling is somewhat awkward.
>>>
>>> Version 0.7 looks much more promising, at least from
>>> the screen shots, but that hasn't been release yet:
>>>
>>> http://www.gnuferret.org/
>>>
>>> On Fri, 2008-09-12 at 09:59 -0400, Barbara Stephenson wrote:
>>>> I would like to use an ERD tool for postgres and it be open
>>>> source. Any
>>>> suggestions?
>>>> --
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Barbara Stephenson
>>>> EDI Specialist/Programmer
>>>> Turbo, division of Ozburn-Hessey Logistics
>>>> 2251 Jesse Jewell Pkwy NE
>>>> Gainesville, GA 30507
>>>> tel: (678)989-3020 fax: (404)935-6171
>>>> barbara@turbocorp.com
>>>> www.ohlogistics.com
>>
>> --
>> Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org)
>> To make changes to your subscription:
>> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Barbara Stephenson
> EDI Specialist/Programmer
> Turbo, division of Ozburn-Hessey Logistics
> 2251 Jesse Jewell Pkwy NE
> Gainesville, GA 30507
> tel: (678)989-3020 fax: (404)935-6171
> barbara@turbocorp.com
> www.ohlogistics.com
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: open source ERD for postgresql database
2008-09-12 13:59 open source ERD for postgresql database Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
2008-09-12 14:24 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>
2008-09-15 18:58 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Carol Walter <walterc@indiana.edu>
2008-09-15 19:06 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Anibal David Acosta <aa@personal.net.py>
@ 2008-09-16 09:04 ` Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Thomas Jacob @ 2008-09-16 09:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Anibal David Acosta <aa@personal.net.py>; +Cc: Carol Walter <walterc@indiana.edu>; Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>; pgsql-admin
Looks interesting, how well does MICRO-OLAP support
the full range of PostgreSQL's types? Things like
"cidr" for instance.
On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 15:06 -0400, Anibal David Acosta wrote:
> MICRO-OLAP Database designer for postgres is a great tool.
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org
> [mailto:pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org] En nombre de Carol Walter
> Enviado el: lunes, 15 de septiembre de 2008 02:58 p.m.
> Para: Thomas Jacob
> CC: Barbara Stephenson; pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
> Asunto: Re: [ADMIN] open source ERD for postgresql database
>
> This sort of depends on what you want to do with the ERD. If I want
> to document an existing system, I use Aqua Data Studio. It's not
> free, but it will take an existing system and draw the ERD for you
> based on the relationships it finds in the database. There are
> things that I don't like about it. It puts the tables into the ERD
> in alpha order. This leads to some spaghetti ERD's. You can move
> the tables around and then save them. The problem is that once they
> are saved, it's an image and you can't move them anymore. If you
> recreate the ERD you have to begin again to move the tables around.
> Another tool that some people like, but that I haven't used is called
> SQL-EZ. It's cost is trivial.
>
> Carol
>
> On Sep 12, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Thomas Jacob wrote:
>
> > I've been using GNU ferret for a while, it's OK
> > for simple tasks, and can produce table graphs and
> > even output rudimentary PostgreSQL DDL in Version 0.6,
> > but it doesn't support PostgreSQL's full range of types yet
> > and the handling is somewhat awkward.
> >
> > Version 0.7 looks much more promising, at least from
> > the screen shots, but that hasn't been release yet:
> >
> > http://www.gnuferret.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 2008-09-12 at 09:59 -0400, Barbara Stephenson wrote:
> >> I would like to use an ERD tool for postgres and it be open
> >> source. Any
> >> suggestions?
> >> --
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Barbara Stephenson
> >> EDI Specialist/Programmer
> >> Turbo, division of Ozburn-Hessey Logistics
> >> 2251 Jesse Jewell Pkwy NE
> >> Gainesville, GA 30507
> >> tel: (678)989-3020 fax: (404)935-6171
> >> barbara@turbocorp.com
> >> www.ohlogistics.com
> >>
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: open source ERD for postgresql database
2008-09-12 13:59 open source ERD for postgresql database Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
2008-09-12 14:24 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>
2008-09-15 18:58 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Carol Walter <walterc@indiana.edu>
2008-09-15 19:06 ` Re: open source ERD for postgresql database Anibal David Acosta <aa@personal.net.py>
@ 2008-11-19 20:12 ` Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Barbara Stephenson @ 2008-11-19 20:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-admin; +Cc: Anibal David Acosta <aa@personal.net.py>; 'Carol Walter' <walterc@indiana.edu>; 'Thomas Jacob' <jacob@internet24.de>
Sorry just now had some time to look at this but unfortunately this is not for
PG on linux. :(
Anibal David Acosta wrote:
> MICRO-OLAP Database designer for postgres is a great tool.
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org
> [mailto:pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org] En nombre de Carol Walter
> Enviado el: lunes, 15 de septiembre de 2008 02:58 p.m.
> Para: Thomas Jacob
> CC: Barbara Stephenson; pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
> Asunto: Re: [ADMIN] open source ERD for postgresql database
>
> This sort of depends on what you want to do with the ERD. If I want
> to document an existing system, I use Aqua Data Studio. It's not
> free, but it will take an existing system and draw the ERD for you
> based on the relationships it finds in the database. There are
> things that I don't like about it. It puts the tables into the ERD
> in alpha order. This leads to some spaghetti ERD's. You can move
> the tables around and then save them. The problem is that once they
> are saved, it's an image and you can't move them anymore. If you
> recreate the ERD you have to begin again to move the tables around.
> Another tool that some people like, but that I haven't used is called
> SQL-EZ. It's cost is trivial.
>
> Carol
>
> On Sep 12, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Thomas Jacob wrote:
> > I've been using GNU ferret for a while, it's OK
> > for simple tasks, and can produce table graphs and
> > even output rudimentary PostgreSQL DDL in Version 0.6,
> > but it doesn't support PostgreSQL's full range of types yet
> > and the handling is somewhat awkward.
> >
> > Version 0.7 looks much more promising, at least from
> > the screen shots, but that hasn't been release yet:
> >
> > http://www.gnuferret.org/
> >
> > On Fri, 2008-09-12 at 09:59 -0400, Barbara Stephenson wrote:
> >> I would like to use an ERD tool for postgres and it be open
> >> source. Any
> >> suggestions?
> >> --
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Barbara Stephenson
> >> EDI Specialist/Programmer
> >> Turbo, division of Ozburn-Hessey Logistics
> >> 2251 Jesse Jewell Pkwy NE
> >> Gainesville, GA 30507
> >> tel: (678)989-3020 fax: (404)935-6171
> >> barbara@turbocorp.com
> >> www.ohlogistics.com
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin
--
Regards,
Barbara Stephenson
EDI Specialist/Programmer
Turbo, division of OHL
2251 Jesse Jewell Pkwy
Gainesville, GA 30507
tel: (678)989-3020 fax: (404)935-6171
barbara@turbocorp.com
www.ohl.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-11-19 20:12 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2008-09-12 13:59 open source ERD for postgresql database Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
2008-09-12 14:24 ` Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>
2008-09-15 18:58 ` Carol Walter <walterc@indiana.edu>
2008-09-15 19:06 ` Anibal David Acosta <aa@personal.net.py>
2008-09-15 19:34 ` Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
2008-09-15 19:44 ` Carol Walter <walterc@indiana.edu>
2008-09-16 09:04 ` Thomas Jacob <jacob@internet24.de>
2008-11-19 20:12 ` Barbara Stephenson <barbara@turbocorp.com>
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