From lance@uiuc.edu Fri Nov 30 19:46:29 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.191]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 659712E033F for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:46:29 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.191]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 50151-06 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:46:25 -0400 (AST) Received: from sab-fillmore.sab.uiuc.edu (swan16.admin.uiuc.edu [128.174.254.16]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DF532E01D9 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:46:25 -0400 (AST) Received: from SAB-FENWICK.sab.uiuc.edu ([128.174.254.19]) by sab-fillmore.sab.uiuc.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:46:53 -0600 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C83389.C1A986D4" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: Enhancement request Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:46:53 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Enhancement request Thread-Index: AcgzibAV5Dr8EkzhS8C6lX1Ai8LJDA== From: "Campbell, Lance" To: "posgres support" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Nov 2007 19:46:53.0453 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1C553D0:01C83389] X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/250 X-Sequence-Number: 27493 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83389.C1A986D4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could you please add to your to do list a schema parameter for vacuum? =20 Example: =20 VACUUM SCHEMA xyz; =20 PostgreSQL would get a list of all of the tables found in the schema. It would then loop through vacuuming each table in the schema. =20 I found today that I did not have max_fsm_pages set high enough in order to vacuum the entire database. I vacuum daily to avoid problems. After realizing that I cannot vacuum the entire database now, I then had to do it at the table level. I had to go through all 13 of my schemas and list each table I found into an SQL vacuum script. This was a real waist of time. I will eventually restart PostgreSQL with an increased value for max_fsm_pages so this will not be an issue. =20 =20 But until then I will have to run a new script. I created a script with 420 SQL vacuum statements at the table level. I would have preferred to create 13 vacuum SQL statements at the schema level. =20 Thanks for considering this enhancement,=20 =20 Lance Campbell Project Manager/Software Architect Web Services at Public Affairs University of Illinois 217.333.0382 http://webservices.uiuc.edu =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83389.C1A986D4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Could you please add to your to do list a schema = parameter for vacuum?

 

Example:

 

VACUUM SCHEMA xyz;

 

PostgreSQL would get a list of all of the tables = found in the schema.  It would then loop through vacuuming each table in the = schema.

 

I found today that I did not have max_fsm_pages set = high enough in order to vacuum the entire database.  I vacuum daily to = avoid problems.  After realizing that I cannot vacuum the entire database = now, I then had to do it at the table level.  I had to go through all 13 = of my schemas and list each table I found into an SQL vacuum script.  = This was a real waist of time.  I will eventually restart PostgreSQL with an = increased value for max_fsm_pages so this will not be an issue.  =

 

But until then I will have to run a new script.  = I created a script with 420 SQL vacuum statements at the table = level.  I would have preferred to create 13 vacuum SQL statements at the schema = level.

 

Thanks for considering this enhancement, =

 

Lance Campbell

Project Manager/Software = Architect

Web Services at Public = Affairs

University of Illinois=

217.333.0382

http://webservices.uiuc.edu

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C83389.C1A986D4-- From jonah.harris@gmail.com Fri Nov 30 20:18:42 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BA9A2E0076 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:18:42 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 75127-05 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:18:35 -0400 (AST) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.236]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B73302E0033 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:18:38 -0400 (AST) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id l8so1864324nzf for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:18:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=HjoZTXxl2uGP/x5iTb2sGEujTMxpKfoU3xzyOCC/Wjs=; b=usgr9dH9RZVmEdl5lT8fMAGNbabK20Ci2xJDWadNDTcVw82ADxC0ZLErQJTf3k8w9Mq5oMz6MMbB/CCJ8MnDZpoIgajuLLockuFAJAP0O6oVr1OfgV7h5D5abkX838VeXrdvDz0F9FVZrBGExxgQiioAT5c1ZLXw6b7a06/Wo7A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Dht2M6pUAV8nweWu//R9vz6T0yeNIhbSssuOz5dMD2YNeZnQcFe6dMOpgZsIN9vWCHZ5r3fsa+7XV+EBF0njnblSF7I0BcL3OIEZl212o+iAAyUn3PnKV3KQVTJHHzVi5zhg7WKQL6u4bD6t8hAD1Ft0Ns1mwoaPxI9smH5xERg= Received: by 10.142.174.8 with SMTP id w8mr495512wfe.1196453917013; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.19.7 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:18:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:18:36 -0500 From: "Jonah H. Harris" To: "Campbell, Lance" Subject: Re: Enhancement request Cc: "posgres support" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/254 X-Sequence-Number: 27497 On Nov 30, 2007 2:46 PM, Campbell, Lance wrote: > Could you please add to your to do list a schema parameter for vacuum? Schema-based analyze would also be useful. -- Jonah H. Harris, Sr. Software Architect | phone: 732.331.1324 EnterpriseDB Corporation | fax: 732.331.1301 499 Thornall Street, 2nd Floor | jonah.harris@enterprisedb.com Edison, NJ 08837 | http://www.enterprisedb.com/ From jd@commandprompt.com Fri Nov 30 20:33:47 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E8C2E2FAC for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:33:47 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 87747-04 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:33:44 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB142E304D for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:33:44 -0400 (AST) Received: from jd-laptop (cmdalert.com [69.55.229.115]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAUKXfQu031243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:33:43 -0800 Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:33:41 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" To: "Campbell, Lance" Cc: "posgres support" Subject: Re: Enhancement request Message-ID: <20071130123341.12f0f5e3@jd-laptop> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Joshua D. Drake X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.0.2 (GTK+ 2.12.0; i486-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/3Ho2OD4mXoa61PWvnCVvlMo"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:33:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/255 X-Sequence-Number: 27498 --Sig_/3Ho2OD4mXoa61PWvnCVvlMo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:46:53 -0600 "Campbell, Lance" wrote: > Could you please add to your to do list a schema parameter for vacuum? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Example: >=20 > =20 >=20 > VACUUM SCHEMA xyz; >=20 > =20 +1 Joshua D. Drake --Sig_/3Ho2OD4mXoa61PWvnCVvlMo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHUHOlATb/zqfZUUQRAv0oAJ0WhRZXACrIFccQsKksd1R8Icm+7QCgmyGm jX32hTDNBdKOWhb4zG3wEtI= =q85w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/3Ho2OD4mXoa61PWvnCVvlMo-- From phoemix@harmless.hu Fri Nov 30 20:38:44 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.191]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3AE22E2E07 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:38:44 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.191]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 68302-04 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:38:42 -0400 (AST) Received: from marvin.harmless.hu (marvin.harmless.hu [195.56.55.204]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D3EF2E02DF for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:38:42 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (marvin-mail [192.168.0.2]) by marvin.harmless.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41F6D7BFD17; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:38:38 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.4.2 (20060627) (Debian) at harmless.hu Received: from marvin.harmless.hu ([192.168.0.2]) by localhost (marvin.harmless.hu [192.168.0.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NXXNzOcKwEc3; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:38:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from marvin.harmless.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marvin.harmless.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC357BFC0A; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:38:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:38:35 +0100 From: Gergely CZUCZY To: "Joshua D. Drake" Cc: "Campbell, Lance" , posgres support Subject: Re: Enhancement request Message-ID: <20071130203835.GA92742@harmless.hu> References: <20071130123341.12f0f5e3@jd-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=x-unknown; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071130123341.12f0f5e3@jd-laptop> User-Agent: mutt-ng/devel-r804 (FreeBSD) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/256 X-Sequence-Number: 27499 --k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 12:33:41PM -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:46:53 -0600 > "Campbell, Lance" wrote: >=20 > > Could you please add to your to do list a schema parameter for vacuum? > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > Example: > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > VACUUM SCHEMA xyz; > >=20 > > =20 >=20 > +1 I'd also find it useful. I have many projects in a single database in different schemas. Sincerely, Gergely Czuczy mailto: gergely.czuczy@harmless.hu --=20 Weenies test. Geniuses solve problems that arise. --k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) owF1Ur9rFEEUPhNsFixS2j0CwSK36+5dcjk35pK4OWMk0UASLWyc2317N2Z2Zp0f Zy6F4A/EQkFEAxJBi3QiKIithaWQxn9CKxsRLARnL7k0YvXm/fr43nzfkxPDpaGR /Xcfro0/erp77O3Qp9Z4ZrTmbTcjsku5G/h+4J6pTE1U3JpbS/y0nsb+ZL0SVOuk tbiqv0SCa+TaXe/lGILGLX06Z4TyaYg7RCrUM0anbt0ZzC1QlQtFNRU8BMoZ5XjU W5eEqxSl2+SxSChvh3DTCI2Jm0vKNWkxdJzLHM5LWoZLogtVvwwV358CoiGohNVq OBGsroDr133buShUxxBY8GBBkk2EW9JihU4DBhBVv4/SRwjsbi2crNrlmu/bodGI ZHkLGSvDMuExjsJZVsQ5Q03sYWIaR4AzlWKhAZEwLIGeMJAzJAqBJAloUVRkERMB jCoNBFTcwYxATiTJUKOEVEjoktiYbLaAGiAexkHa3LKcWP+G/41cmY82NlZgLbrQ XJmHrd729D/DB8l44CydSoAwJSClPAGqwShMDfNgCTqki5AR3oNcihsYa2XFKohb VawKCbFqFBfaYkJTq5nV7/Aq5TmOs0btV0lkvbLjLKJs2xdE2ybe7jkZoUyLENoH ZS/ul+esWzKGSnkd4ziuW5C8isgpKusqpT1YtIklqEAJZslZXtYPme12rPpEUoWe 83B2+HipsOXA0yNDP9dKr9SdaPfjn/fPvn3fe/xgp3kv3fHGSq/f7O1v/lr+ce7F 9ZfPf38dO/n57v3bfwE= =b1jG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0-- From scrawford@pinpointresearch.com Fri Nov 30 20:42:28 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C7A22E00D9 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:42:28 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80036-02 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:42:21 -0400 (AST) Received: from polaris.pinpointresearch.com (66-7-238-130.static-ip.telepacific.net [66.7.238.130]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD7E42E00C8 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:42:24 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.179] (betelgeuse.pinpointresearch.com [192.168.1.179]) by polaris.pinpointresearch.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B48E00EC80; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:42:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <475075AE.1080108@pinpointresearch.com> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:42:22 -0800 From: Steve Crawford User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071022) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Campbell, Lance" CC: posgres support Subject: Re: Enhancement request References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000504070701080804040002" X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/258 X-Sequence-Number: 27501 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000504070701080804040002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Campbell, Lance wrote: > > Could you please add to your to do list a schema parameter for vacuum? > > > > Example: > > > > VACUUM SCHEMA xyz; > > > > PostgreSQL would get a list of all of the tables found in the schema. > It would then loop through vacuuming each table in the schema. > > > > I found today that I did not have max_fsm_pages set high enough in > order to vacuum the entire database. I vacuum daily to avoid > problems. After realizing that I cannot vacuum the entire database > now, I then had to do it at the table level. I had to go through all > 13 of my schemas and list each table I found into an SQL vacuum > script. This was a real waist of time. I will eventually restart > PostgreSQL with an increased value for max_fsm_pages so this will not > be an issue. > If I understand how PG works, I don't believe this is a problem. Just run vacuum verbose analyze to determine the required value, set max_fsm_pages to that value, restart and vacuum. I believe the issue with too-small max_fsm_pages is that as vacuum locates reusable space, it simply runs out of room to save that information thus PG bloats the table instead of making use of available space located by vacuum. Setting max_fsm_pages to a proper value and running vacuum will address _future_ bloat - and you may even eventually fill all the bloat back in. But the only certain way to remove the bloat that has occurred due to insufficient max_fsm_pages is to vacuum full (or cluster as appropriate - cluster can be many times faster than vacuum full). Having said that, I would also find this feature occasionally useful but would think something akin to pg_dump's options would be more useful with both -n and -t allowing wildcards. Cheers, Steve --------------000504070701080804040002 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Campbell, Lance wrote:

Could you please add to your to do list a schema parameter for vacuum?

 

Example:

 

VACUUM SCHEMA xyz;

 

PostgreSQL would get a list of all of the tables found in the schema.  It would then loop through vacuuming each table in the schema.

 

I found today that I did not have max_fsm_pages set high enough in order to vacuum the entire database.  I vacuum daily to avoid problems.  After realizing that I cannot vacuum the entire database now, I then had to do it at the table level.  I had to go through all 13 of my schemas and list each table I found into an SQL vacuum script.  This was a real waist of time.  I will eventually restart PostgreSQL with an increased value for max_fsm_pages so this will not be an issue. 

If I understand how PG works, I don't believe this is a problem. Just run vacuum verbose analyze to determine the required value, set max_fsm_pages to that value, restart and vacuum. I believe the issue with too-small max_fsm_pages is that as vacuum locates reusable space, it simply runs out of room to save that information thus PG bloats the table instead of making use of available space located by vacuum.

Setting max_fsm_pages to a proper value and running vacuum will address _future_ bloat - and you may even eventually fill all the bloat back in. But the only certain way to remove the bloat that has occurred due to insufficient max_fsm_pages is to vacuum full (or cluster as appropriate - cluster can be many times faster than vacuum full).

Having said that, I would also find this feature occasionally useful but would think something akin to pg_dump's options would be more useful with both -n and -t allowing wildcards.

Cheers,
Steve

 --------------000504070701080804040002-- From tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us Fri Nov 30 21:30:34 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.187]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33C7A2E3C52 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:30:34 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.187]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 55068-02-3 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:30:22 -0400 (AST) Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (sss.pgh.pa.us [66.207.139.130]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 528C52E3C14 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:30:08 -0400 (AST) Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lAULU5Bw007100; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:30:06 -0500 (EST) To: "Jonah H. Harris" cc: "Campbell, Lance" , "posgres support" Subject: Re: Enhancement request In-reply-to: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> Comments: In-reply-to "Jonah H. Harris" message dated "Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:18:36 -0500" Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:30:05 -0500 Message-ID: <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> From: Tom Lane X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/263 X-Sequence-Number: 27506 "Jonah H. Harris" writes: > On Nov 30, 2007 2:46 PM, Campbell, Lance wrote: >> Could you please add to your to do list a schema parameter for vacuum? > Schema-based analyze would also be useful. For what? AFAICS we are moving as fast as we can in the direction of auto vacuum and analyze. Adding more frammishes to the manual commands seems like gilding the buggy whip. regards, tom lane From jonah.harris@gmail.com Fri Nov 30 21:34:16 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8AE32E3B51 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:34:16 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 52461-01-7 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:34:08 -0400 (AST) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B8222E3EEE for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:32:27 -0400 (AST) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so5259607pyb for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=SIDeT6OxEe4WTZ09I67PXzoDzu8htwJ30ARFLCqNOS8=; b=RTOrPqNxMbrBNOlcs0hl3J2qCrXn2BRBQBnWKfsEQtr2skg9msrT26Sk/IF5Wm4l5uubL5mLAq0Ruh6NBmBJ3ekkHkJEkeHjNPQAWtSNB+St4S0Qhb4lTwbKMLAqsqHLzJ4ZPaNFnDqhn9M6xajwfH9JZHhtRDF5a6IETEeilQE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=AfchUSirPzyiG6vlWru1Qvds1bZ8IF3dUaPhKVs+iqE2S6vAG6rMijICb9Y5IZKc5D5u/m0/+XbTif6JCRYx0zxCxHFCxpTBHyEG8V+/ZG2UtiJQY09u9dTTeRFh/bPgbJfrYNRKFtBdzuhLuKsxFoW2PATgcfKB+WTFnzawis8= Received: by 10.142.83.4 with SMTP id g4mr1077165wfb.1196458345782; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:32:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.19.7 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:32:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:32:25 -0500 From: "Jonah H. Harris" To: "Tom Lane" Subject: Re: Enhancement request Cc: "Campbell, Lance" , "posgres support" In-Reply-To: <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/264 X-Sequence-Number: 27507 On Nov 30, 2007 4:30 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > For what? Convenience. > AFAICS we are moving as fast as we can in the direction of auto vacuum > and analyze. Adding more frammishes to the manual commands seems like > gilding the buggy whip. Autovacuum will never be the be all end all. -- Jonah H. Harris, Sr. Software Architect | phone: 732.331.1324 EnterpriseDB Corporation | fax: 732.331.1301 499 Thornall Street, 2nd Floor | jonah.harris@enterprisedb.com Edison, NJ 08837 | http://www.enterprisedb.com/ From munir.usama@gmail.com Fri Nov 30 21:42:19 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC85A2E0316 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:42:19 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 36505-09 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:42:16 -0400 (AST) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC3A22E033F for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:42:15 -0400 (AST) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f5so1971823nfh for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:42:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=dZC9jo5B8szkAbvM3l2v/T+EOqvPK+kWY8dFSpy6Km0=; b=tXJueF4oBLF0Ixu3q4USHL+70nrgrtBkVDziC455xv61ofD7UqIUMu1/3FRg/pVQgfr6uokSYd5Rw65YBe6e7rmWIb0H5QEaHJ1jpyRZrJH4ikRDxIt998FKXpieDPASXSl05isFk9UoSXKDxGvpJu65mPNKqipQ/cQaWQwD27U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=qNmz12EsMFHsb8a9czPha6uh49VAgGiGUHUt4pR+rdyjAqgUxZEuQsdAsvJD0tpFqgCl0ZVWagql8ba04BH6Vi57jCt10tIEFop7oC/njEXfi7K+mCrRjTHvmQsYj+HEutZaE4bwLlcmYjWy8TF7ufUHhpviQKlIBkscd4PbBiQ= Received: by 10.78.122.16 with SMTP id u16mr9481976huc.1196458933970; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:42:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.151.9 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:42:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 02:42:13 +0500 From: "Usama Dar" To: "Campbell, Lance" Subject: Re: Enhancement request Cc: "posgres support" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_75_29882349.1196458933925" References: X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/265 X-Sequence-Number: 27508 ------=_Part_75_29882349.1196458933925 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Dec 1, 2007 12:46 AM, Campbell, Lance wrote: > Could you please add to your to do list a schema parameter for vacuum? > > > > Example: > > > > VACUUM SCHEMA xyz; > > > > PostgreSQL would get a list of all of the tables found in the schema. It > would then loop through vacuuming each table in the schema. > > > > I found today that I did not have max_fsm_pages set high enough in order > to vacuum the entire database. I vacuum daily to avoid problems. After > realizing that I cannot vacuum the entire database now, I then had to do it > at the table level. I had to go through all 13 of my schemas and list each > table I found into an SQL vacuum script. This was a real waist of time. I > will eventually restart PostgreSQL with an increased value for max_fsm_pages > so this will not be an issue. > > > > But until then I will have to run a new script. I created a script with > 420 SQL vacuum statements at the table level. I would have preferred to > create 13 vacuum SQL statements at the schema level. > i generally use an sql to generate vaccum statement for all tables in a schema and then simple copy paste the output in an sql file and then just run it. something like following postgres=# select 'vacuum ' || relname || ';' from pg_class c , pg_namespace n where c.relnamespace = n.oid and n.nspname='public' and relkind='r'; ?column? -------------- vacuum b; vacuum a; vacuum test; vacuum xyz; vacuum foo; (5 rows) You can redirect this output to a file and then strip off the heading and the feedback of (5 rows) and just run that file > > Thanks for considering this enhancement, > > > > Lance Campbell > > Project Manager/Software Architect > > Web Services at Public Affairs > > University of Illinois > > 217.333.0382 > > http://webservices.uiuc.edu > > > -- Usama Munir Dar http://linkedin.com/in/usamadar Consultant Architect Cell:+92 321 5020666 Skype: usamadar ------=_Part_75_29882349.1196458933925 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On Dec 1, 2007 12:46 AM, Campbell, Lance <lance@uiuc.edu> wrote:

Could you please add to your to do list a schema parameter for vacuum?

 

Example:

 

VACUUM SCHEMA xyz;

 

PostgreSQL would get a list of all of the tables found in the schema.  It would then loop through vacuuming each table in the schema.

 

I found today that I did not have max_fsm_pages set high enough in order to vacuum the entire database.  I vacuum daily to avoid problems.  After realizing that I cannot vacuum the entire database now, I then had to do it at the table level.  I had to go through all 13 of my schemas and list each table I found into an SQL vacuum script.  This was a real waist of time.  I will eventually restart PostgreSQL with an increased value for max_fsm_pages so this will not be an issue. 

 

But until then I will have to run a new script.  I created a script with 420 SQL vacuum statements at the table level.  I would have preferred to create 13 vacuum SQL statements at the schema level.


i generally use an sql to generate vaccum statement for all tables in a schema and then simple copy paste the output in  an sql file and then just run it. something like following

postgres=# select 'vacuum ' || relname || ';'
from pg_class c , pg_namespace n
where c.relnamespace = n.oid
and n.nspname='public' and relkind='r';

   ?column?
--------------
 vacuum b;
 vacuum a;
 vacuum test;
 vacuum xyz;
 vacuum foo;
(5 rows)

You can redirect this output to a file and then strip off the heading and the feedback of (5 rows) and just run that file


 

Thanks for considering this enhancement,

 

Lance Campbell

Project Manager/Software Architect

Web Services at Public Affairs

University of Illinois

217.333.0382

http://webservices.uiuc.edu

 




--
Usama Munir Dar http://linkedin.com/in/usamadar
Consultant Architect
Cell:+92 321 5020666
Skype: usamadar
------=_Part_75_29882349.1196458933925-- From tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us Fri Nov 30 21:48:38 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FDF42E3D50 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:48:38 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 65241-07 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:48:26 -0400 (AST) Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (sss.pgh.pa.us [66.207.139.130]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0422E3D4C for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:48:26 -0400 (AST) Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lAULmOWc007342; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:48:24 -0500 (EST) To: "Jonah H. Harris" cc: "Campbell, Lance" , "posgres support" Subject: Re: Enhancement request In-reply-to: <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> Comments: In-reply-to "Jonah H. Harris" message dated "Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:32:25 -0500" Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:48:24 -0500 Message-ID: <7341.1196459304@sss.pgh.pa.us> From: Tom Lane X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/266 X-Sequence-Number: 27509 "Jonah H. Harris" writes: > On Nov 30, 2007 4:30 PM, Tom Lane wrote: >> AFAICS we are moving as fast as we can in the direction of auto vacuum >> and analyze. Adding more frammishes to the manual commands seems like >> gilding the buggy whip. > Autovacuum will never be the be all end all. No doubt, which is why no one has proposed removing the manual commands. (Yet, anyway.) But adding complication to them is not going to be an easy sale. We have limited manpower for development and we cannot afford to get bogged down maintaining a codebase with enormous bloat from useless legacy "features". So: show me a use case for this that will still make sense in a mostly-autovacuum world. I can see a need for manual vacuuming of individual special-case tables, but I don't see why schema-wide vacuuming is so useful as to justify diverting development effort to it. regards, tom lane From jd@commandprompt.com Fri Nov 30 22:00:18 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.191]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 993DC2E3D68 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:00:18 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.191]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 91355-08 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:00:16 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D232E0231 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:00:15 -0400 (AST) Received: from jd-laptop (cmdalert.com [69.55.229.115]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAUM08rV000936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:00:09 -0800 Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:00:05 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" To: Tom Lane Cc: "Jonah H. Harris" , "Campbell, Lance" , "posgres support" Subject: Re: Enhancement request Message-ID: <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> In-Reply-To: <7341.1196459304@sss.pgh.pa.us> References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> <7341.1196459304@sss.pgh.pa.us> Organization: Joshua D. Drake X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.0.2 (GTK+ 2.12.0; i486-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/gylha+VCr4Coflw0h02RRDk"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:00:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/267 X-Sequence-Number: 27510 --Sig_/gylha+VCr4Coflw0h02RRDk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:48:24 -0500 Tom Lane wrote: > "Jonah H. Harris" writes: > > On Nov 30, 2007 4:30 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > >> AFAICS we are moving as fast as we can in the direction of auto > >> vacuum and analyze. Adding more frammishes to the manual commands > >> seems like gilding the buggy whip. >=20 > So: show me a use case for this that will still make sense in a > mostly-autovacuum world. I think you are living in a different world than I am if you think it is a mostly-autovacuum world. Yes autovacuum is great for general low use scenarios. Throw it at a database doing hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of transactions an hour that has relations that in the multiple hundred gig range and autovacuum is useless for a good portion of that database. Autovacuum is a great utility for many workloads but even with the upcoming changes I will continually find myself turning off autovacuum for specific relations just so I can turn around and turn on vacuum within cron for others. The multi-worker autovacuum is a great new addition to help part of that problem (starvation) but it is not help against the other (resource consumption, specifically IO). > I can see a need for manual vacuuming of > individual special-case tables, but I don't see why schema-wide > vacuuming is so useful as to justify diverting development effort to > it. The thing is, it isn't nearly as special case for my environments. I have many customers, with many tables where autovacuum just doesn't cut it. We turn it on for say 80% of the relations but guess what... the important relations are still on some type of schedule through something like cron. I get your argument but surely adding SCHEMA isn't that much of a code bloat scenario. We don't even have to add another reserved word... Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake --Sig_/gylha+VCr4Coflw0h02RRDk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHUIfoATb/zqfZUUQRAiS4AJwL+Bi9rMvdDMpa33R/twhtx6AjzACeKy+e CcGgkqkKHtA+pkUmlUzTZQ4= =iPJJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/gylha+VCr4Coflw0h02RRDk-- From cbbrowne@acm.org Fri Nov 30 23:48:28 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.187]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C33DE2E00CA for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:48:28 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.187]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 94038-08 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:48:24 -0400 (AST) Received: from news.hub.org (news.hub.org [200.46.204.72]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668332E00C6 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:48:28 -0400 (AST) Received: from news.hub.org (news.hub.org [200.46.204.72]) by news.hub.org (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lAUNmN9U098151 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:48:23 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) Received: (from news@localhost) by news.hub.org (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id lAUN3x5L080568 for pgsql-admin@postgresql.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:03:59 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from news) From: Chris Browne X-Newsgroups: pgsql.admin Subject: Re: Enhancement request Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:23:25 -0500 Organization: cbbrowne Computing Inc Lines: 56 Message-ID: <60bq9b5q5e.fsf@dba2.int.libertyrms.com> References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.1008 (Gnus v5.10.8) XEmacs/21.4.21 (linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:nQbZZs98hZWylTBC+D8tpOKPWXU= To: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/271 X-Sequence-Number: 27514 jonah.harris@gmail.com ("Jonah H. Harris") writes: > On Nov 30, 2007 4:30 PM, Tom Lane wrote: >> For what? > > Convenience. > >> AFAICS we are moving as fast as we can in the direction of auto vacuum >> and analyze. Adding more frammishes to the manual commands seems like >> gilding the buggy whip. > > Autovacuum will never be the be all end all. And why is does it not suffice to do the following? SCHEMA=billing for table in `psql -qt -d my_database -c "select table_name from information_schema.tables where table_schema = '${SCHEMA}' and table_type = 'BASE TABLE';"`; do psql -d my_database -c "vacuum analyze ${SCHEMA}.${table};" done I don't see a need to add more to the SQL grammar when the above can be done in 4 lines of shell script. It seems to me that if you actually *NEED* to do 'sophisticated logic-driven' VACUUMing, then you are already headed down a road where you will need to have: a) A script b) Some query criteria, whether in the DBMS, or purely within the shell, to handle the "logic" bit. Once you're there, you have *AT LEAST* the 4 lines of script that I suggested, if not considerably more. Interestingly, the .sig chosen below actually seems somewhat germaine to this... What you're asking for, whether it's "gilding the buggy whip" or "adding frammishes to manual commands" [1], is, in fact, MORE that you're suggesting it is. You're not merely looking for a "frammish," you're proposing that it is meaningful for us to encourage a policy of vacuuming on a per-schema basis. That's not merely a mechanism to let the user do what they want - that's policy. In contrast, while what is in my little script represents policy, as a whole, none of the components represent policies in and of themselves. Footnotes: [1] I *love* the way Tom phrased that; that sentence is going into my personal "fortunes" file... -- output = reverse("ofni.sesabatadxunil" "@" "enworbbc") http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/languages.html People consistently decry X for doing precisely what it was designed to do: provide a mechanism to allow *OTHERS* to build GUI systems. -- John Stevens From alvherre@alvh.no-ip.org Fri Nov 30 22:34:22 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702032E0191 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:34:22 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 38296-01 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:34:15 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2187C2E016E for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:34:18 -0400 (AST) Received: from perhan.alvh.no-ip.org (200-126-98-252.bk7-dsl.surnet.cl [200.126.98.252]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAUMY3OW001667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:34:12 -0800 Received: by perhan.alvh.no-ip.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AE98047C69; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:34:02 -0300 (CLST) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:34:02 -0300 From: Alvaro Herrera To: "Joshua D. Drake" Cc: Tom Lane , "Jonah H. Harris" , "Campbell, Lance" , posgres support Subject: Re: Enhancement request Message-ID: <20071130223402.GG3175@alvh.no-ip.org> References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> <7341.1196459304@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-11) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:34:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/269 X-Sequence-Number: 27512 Joshua D. Drake escribió: > Autovacuum is a great utility for many workloads but even with the > upcoming changes I will continually find myself turning off autovacuum > for specific relations just so I can turn around and turn on vacuum > within cron for others. > > The multi-worker autovacuum is a great new addition to help part of > that problem (starvation) but it is not help against the other > (resource consumption, specifically IO). Huh, autovac will consume exactly the same amount of I/O as a user-induced vacuum, so I don't see your point. Multiworker autovac hasn't been tried on your customer's servers yet. It may well turn out to be that it is possible to let it do its work even on the high-update tables or large tables that you currently use cron for. It might be just a matter of tuning the knobs. Remember, we're not adding VACUUM SCHEMA in 8.2 so it doesn't make any sense to try to compare it against the old autovac. And you can bet that in 8.4 autovac will have even more goodies. -- Alvaro Herrera Valdivia, Chile ICBM: S 39º 49' 18.1", W 73º 13' 56.4" "This is a foot just waiting to be shot" (Andrew Dunstan) From jonah.harris@gmail.com Fri Nov 30 22:53:09 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.187]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4342E007B for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:53:09 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.187]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 73636-10 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:52:59 -0400 (AST) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.191]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 798E12E007A for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:53:02 -0400 (AST) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so2148947rvb for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:53:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=hp97LkYVQzxeRHX44Lb/SzKqxPg0TL0yIE5MyVAB73I=; b=fGLnHkTBRO6SUH358l5ztRHXgxzSRPAhNrcLnVea1SaTUbSiCc5k0WHy1J/umNMQAb8w585q/ebAxMnPYZykSfrW9tnxB21nL+SiRz8kkkrIatkTRloMOXzuXD08azvsPNTIqkZqXm6o0mKU950t4IM6nNr3IU6GUKXLOFIYZ38= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=uTxsqoaZ3HjhsW0cE7pMPXbW7ezpWNhEqcMImDJT7dlArEK/tZ70sjvGbaCnIIVzWbVpIUD4vsf0h263DDe+vAxQt11pj/aRoff2aUdaN7kbwhTAIVC6U+1x3SAXmulRjQfc1ixlFx0BQi5eYbgqyiNkhb6YSylErxernINT4gw= Received: by 10.142.231.7 with SMTP id d7mr851713wfh.1196463181057; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:53:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.19.7 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:53:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36e682920711301453x2d361iff5d3f8679606d3e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:53:01 -0500 From: "Jonah H. Harris" To: "Joshua D. Drake" Subject: Re: Enhancement request Cc: "Tom Lane" , "Campbell, Lance" , "posgres support" In-Reply-To: <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> <7341.1196459304@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/270 X-Sequence-Number: 27513 On Nov 30, 2007 5:00 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > So: show me a use case for this that will still make sense in a > > mostly-autovacuum world. > > I think you are living in a different world than I am if you think it > is a mostly-autovacuum world. Same here. > Yes autovacuum is great for general low use scenarios. Throw it at a > database doing hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of transactions > an hour that has relations that in the multiple hundred gig range and > autovacuum is useless for a good portion of that database. Yes, this is precisely the case I'm talking about. Every single high-volume client we have or have consulted for is using custom vacuuming. Autovacuum works fine for the common case, but it doesn't handle high-volume databases very well yet. > The thing is, it isn't nearly as special case for my environments. I > have many customers, with many tables where autovacuum just doesn't cut > it. We turn it on for say 80% of the relations but guess what... the > important relations are still on some type of schedule through > something like cron. > > I get your argument but surely adding SCHEMA isn't that much of a code > bloat scenario. We don't even have to add another reserved word... Agreed. It's very simple and won't add much code at all. -- Jonah H. Harris, Sr. Software Architect | phone: 732.331.1324 EnterpriseDB Corporation | fax: 732.331.1301 499 Thornall Street, 2nd Floor | jonah.harris@enterprisedb.com Edison, NJ 08837 | http://www.enterprisedb.com/ From jonah.harris@gmail.com Sat Dec 1 00:32:36 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.191]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE76C2E015F for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:32:36 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.191]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 65448-03 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:32:33 -0400 (AST) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.181]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE79C2E0140 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:32:32 -0400 (AST) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m38so3385840waf for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:32:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=y5OuTxIJ9HtvbddBHfm5AkXvpR4LdQRTYdcLb/CxQIo=; b=iVz9bZCS5lBx2BjVn3sQpnNdx2LxvAxF1FV87I/7HUo3dwIth+ZFeyjtRFvDeCNTrmleHxuq1laDrIYRQSilDCFcVWsWR63Jy0xOn7qcd85//lA2Db3wVFeKs3tDWeaGifoTCokWSbyYm6zWVp71zxVG84GTd4aY3o4q2tDaM20= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=lKKrWXJLQs2eYsPylfL1dFbyIC4lgDYZSUB4BT356V2u2l71K9hfxqVw1hWbDSN9ZDoudroMsYCgozGsVHFGV9svgTEM71By6h07wUayEbZQDIdRZ+CZ003iaOB3xFdbOjok4x2Z8Mp2GyYkTIH5ARuKLBXV1tLwq3rw56If5fA= Received: by 10.142.231.7 with SMTP id d7mr113683wfh.1196469151305; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.19.7 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:32:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36e682920711301632l72a8cd1eu347ec94b99defe3c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:32:31 -0500 From: "Jonah H. Harris" To: "Chris Browne" Subject: Re: Enhancement request Cc: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org In-Reply-To: <60bq9b5q5e.fsf@dba2.int.libertyrms.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> <60bq9b5q5e.fsf@dba2.int.libertyrms.com> X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/272 X-Sequence-Number: 27515 On Nov 30, 2007 5:23 PM, Chris Browne wrote: > And why is does it not suffice to do the following? I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm fine with writing it manually. I'm talking about making it easy for most users. Remember, we're not UNIX-only; like it or not, most Windows people wouldn't easily be able to script it. -- Jonah H. Harris, Sr. Software Architect | phone: 732.331.1324 EnterpriseDB Corporation | fax: 732.331.1301 499 Thornall Street, 2nd Floor | jonah.harris@enterprisedb.com Edison, NJ 08837 | http://www.enterprisedb.com/ From scott.marlowe@gmail.com Sat Dec 1 03:21:01 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 913EB2E106F for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:21:01 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 77037-01 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:20:34 -0400 (AST) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 715F32E3024 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:20:42 -0400 (AST) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m38so3492370waf for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:20:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=r5CEd1cbsGQteJmGEzNJMCZmm0nxBdnUoEB6u9m8rYE=; b=c5ejI+Pupx07Uy+c5T2JBym17XRoUqKitdakzmBze1E6KL07NhKZr8iKQbsFm3MOTyPJq9lD6EPV9ISS0Bd/mrJSVW4sUIMrSiI/pZsGOQCJ/Z9dloyWZS8F1fyU0yunuP6nTWqkXjE1Poixd0GYTaY/6RBA5G6b4nSFTukl560= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=gf3PwYTrGKwUhTwadJYWzJFqUkrZrbs7TzdeyxEY9J6sIxL2YH0b4JoBY6IATGOTpl/2O26U1wVEQa7jF3Zn0oSM9P+QDL5wltmbtuKlBQxQ5nCGKdcGXJsnHf6EzhDJPfv9WzwQnnX802QwgUrhQu5YHz+deyHCvPach12/sUQ= Received: by 10.114.168.1 with SMTP id q1mr847385wae.1196479240756; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:20:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.53.7 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:20:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:20:40 -0600 From: "Scott Marlowe" To: "Jonah H. Harris" Subject: Re: Enhancement request Cc: "Joshua D. Drake" , "Tom Lane" , "Campbell, Lance" , "posgres support" In-Reply-To: <36e682920711301453x2d361iff5d3f8679606d3e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> <7341.1196459304@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> <36e682920711301453x2d361iff5d3f8679606d3e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/273 X-Sequence-Number: 27516 On Nov 30, 2007 4:53 PM, Jonah H. Harris wrote: > On Nov 30, 2007 5:00 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > > So: show me a use case for this that will still make sense in a > > > mostly-autovacuum world. > > > > I think you are living in a different world than I am if you think it > > is a mostly-autovacuum world. > > Same here. > > > Yes autovacuum is great for general low use scenarios. Throw it at a > > database doing hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of transactions > > an hour that has relations that in the multiple hundred gig range and > > autovacuum is useless for a good portion of that database. > > Yes, this is precisely the case I'm talking about. Every single > high-volume client we have or have consulted for is using custom > vacuuming. Autovacuum works fine for the common case, but it doesn't > handle high-volume databases very well yet. That's the case today, because autovacuum is single threaded and can't hit >1 table at once, so a single very large table vacuum could allow other, smaller tables to bloat inordinately. Which is why 8.3 can vacuum > 1 table at a time. I'm not against having a schema keyword mind you, I'm just pointing out that the ultimate goal of the hackers seems to be an autovacuum daemon that can keep the database vacuumed without the need for user initiated vacuums at all. Not sure 8.3 will get us there. But the multi-threaded autovac is a darn good start. From tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us Sat Dec 1 03:44:25 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.191]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCCD62E3D6B for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:44:25 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.191]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29227-08-2 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:44:22 -0400 (AST) Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (sss.pgh.pa.us [66.207.139.130]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 482192E37DF for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:44:22 -0400 (AST) Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lB13iI7N010685; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:44:18 -0500 (EST) To: "Joshua D. Drake" cc: "Jonah H. Harris" , "Campbell, Lance" , "posgres support" Subject: Re: Enhancement request In-reply-to: <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> <7341.1196459304@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> Comments: In-reply-to "Joshua D. Drake" message dated "Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:00:05 -0800" Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:44:18 -0500 Message-ID: <10684.1196480658@sss.pgh.pa.us> From: Tom Lane X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/274 X-Sequence-Number: 27517 "Joshua D. Drake" writes: > Tom Lane wrote: >> So: show me a use case for this that will still make sense in a >> mostly-autovacuum world. > I think you are living in a different world than I am if you think it > is a mostly-autovacuum world. Certainly it isn't a mostly-autovacuum world in 8.2 or earlier releases, but that's irrelevant to whether it makes sense to expend effort on a feature that would appear (at the earliest) in 8.4. Autovac in 8.3 is very significantly ahead of where it was in 8.2 --- to the point that we've turned it on by default --- and I predict that the pressure of being on by default will really light the afterburners behind its development. I think it's entirely likely that by the time 8.4 is ready, it will be perfectly fair to characterize manual vacuuming as a buggy-whip technology, at least for all but the three-sigmas-above-normal users. And I'd *much* rather see development effort going into making that vision come true, than into adding questionably-useful complexity in the support for manual vacuuming. regards, tom lane From jd@commandprompt.com Sat Dec 1 20:30:41 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E602E0190 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:30:41 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29625-09 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:30:26 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C342E01BB for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:30:38 -0400 (AST) Received: from jd-laptop (cmdalert.com [69.55.229.115]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB1KUTqE023592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:30:30 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:30:29 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" To: Alvaro Herrera Cc: Tom Lane , "Jonah H. Harris" , "Campbell, Lance" , posgres support Subject: Re: Enhancement request Message-ID: <20071201123029.5776b3c5@jd-laptop> In-Reply-To: <20071130223402.GG3175@alvh.no-ip.org> References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> <7341.1196459304@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> <20071130223402.GG3175@alvh.no-ip.org> Organization: Joshua D. Drake X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.1.0 (GTK+ 2.12.0; i486-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/qzGkmTOBEr4oqpvtUYqP1v1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Sat, 01 Dec 2007 12:30:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200712/1 X-Sequence-Number: 27518 --Sig_/qzGkmTOBEr4oqpvtUYqP1v1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:34:02 -0300 Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Joshua D. Drake escribi=C3=83=C2=B3: >=20 > > Autovacuum is a great utility for many workloads but even with the > > upcoming changes I will continually find myself turning off > > autovacuum for specific relations just so I can turn around and > > turn on vacuum within cron for others. > >=20 > > The multi-worker autovacuum is a great new addition to help part of > > that problem (starvation) but it is not help against the other > > (resource consumption, specifically IO). >=20 > Huh, autovac will consume exactly the same amount of I/O as a > user-induced vacuum, so I don't see your point. It can be determined "when" the I/O is used. > Remember, we're not adding VACUUM SCHEMA in 8.2 so it doesn't make any > sense to try to compare it against the old autovac. And you can bet > that in 8.4 autovac will have even more goodies. >=20 I assume you mean 8.3, but that is certainly a valid point. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake --Sig_/qzGkmTOBEr4oqpvtUYqP1v1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHUcRlATb/zqfZUUQRAl7/AJ4oOM/u2Si0Pkcv8nyfV4lueWPv4gCfQalc gKHB+jtjc53jMMaahz2qOZI= =SaoU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/qzGkmTOBEr4oqpvtUYqP1v1-- From alvherre@alvh.no-ip.org Sun Dec 2 01:31:36 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C127F2E00B7 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 21:31:36 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 51726-05 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 21:31:27 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A402E009E for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 21:31:32 -0400 (AST) Received: from perhan.alvh.no-ip.org (200-126-98-252.bk7-dsl.surnet.cl [200.126.98.252]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB21VILe005552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 1 Dec 2007 17:31:25 -0800 Received: by perhan.alvh.no-ip.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 79DBA47C69; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 22:31:14 -0300 (CLST) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 22:31:14 -0300 From: Alvaro Herrera To: "Joshua D. Drake" Cc: Tom Lane , "Jonah H. Harris" , "Campbell, Lance" , posgres support Subject: Re: Enhancement request Message-ID: <20071202013114.GB11039@alvh.no-ip.org> References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> <7341.1196459304@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> <20071130223402.GG3175@alvh.no-ip.org> <20071201123029.5776b3c5@jd-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20071201123029.5776b3c5@jd-laptop> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-11) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Sat, 01 Dec 2007 17:31:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200712/2 X-Sequence-Number: 27519 Joshua D. Drake escribió: > On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:34:02 -0300 > Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > > Joshua D. Drake escribió: > > > > > The multi-worker autovacuum is a great new addition to help part of > > > that problem (starvation) but it is not help against the other > > > (resource consumption, specifically IO). > > > > Huh, autovac will consume exactly the same amount of I/O as a > > user-induced vacuum, so I don't see your point. > > It can be determined "when" the I/O is used. Future plans call for being able to change autovac parameters depending on time of day, so you will be able to decide that using autovacuum too. > > Remember, we're not adding VACUUM SCHEMA in 8.2 so it doesn't make any > > sense to try to compare it against the old autovac. And you can bet > > that in 8.4 autovac will have even more goodies. > > I assume you mean 8.3, but that is certainly a valid point. No, I meant 8.4 --- the feature set of 8.3 is already set on stone. So VACUUM SCHEMA has to compete with whatever we're able to do for the release following that one. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.advogato.org/person/alvherre "Entristecido, Wutra (canción de Las Barreras) echa a Freyr a rodar y a nosotros al mar" From munir.usama@gmail.com Sun Dec 2 20:51:35 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D7F52E006B for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 16:51:35 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09692-06 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 16:51:26 -0400 (AST) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.184]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F40102E0041 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 16:51:25 -0400 (AST) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f5so2159250nfh for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:51:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=iGOj8DTPxlInc3YyE+mpNIhOeS7sSm66mY9bN78+mDs=; b=jChAaQUQ+lNsSD8uLW5HoAcrzfT+FWc5S0M96T5A6HTAPr4lCASxxz6Fbcx8EZUJnJeP7YXWb9rAufI8Ihf4JAA/2kNX8PXjWlHMkrTRV5Uy1rCIZAuc1e86Zy62YFX5oQft+eRVLUy1MoMSM+a8E02qwq9drhVTpuaqmLsAj4o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=rjA+i0tfK9lCBDd3VQAdMNT/cqpr89UHdgQ+CM/T68lGjpDyznrBltzSUF212/JfwNG/vIUY/dn+pmKQWV7UwbJz2rOOiORQpxhgeqBiX/GYitmb+ATSlvwda4nyPEZN9OAdKfBKXkWztWe4q/owaQn4Kssks+4VOOJoGQ81g7M= Received: by 10.78.193.5 with SMTP id q5mr5923393huf.1196628683786; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:51:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.151.9 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 12:51:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 01:51:23 +0500 From: "Usama Dar" To: "Alvaro Herrera" Subject: Re: Enhancement request Cc: "Joshua D. Drake" , "Tom Lane" , "Jonah H. Harris" , "Campbell, Lance" , "posgres support" In-Reply-To: <20071202013114.GB11039@alvh.no-ip.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3343_26336637.1196628683769" References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> <7341.1196459304@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> <20071130223402.GG3175@alvh.no-ip.org> <20071201123029.5776b3c5@jd-laptop> <20071202013114.GB11039@alvh.no-ip.org> X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200712/3 X-Sequence-Number: 27520 ------=_Part_3343_26336637.1196628683769 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Dec 2, 2007 6:31 AM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Joshua D. Drake escribi=F3: > > On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:34:02 -0300 > > Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > > > > Joshua D. Drake escribi=C3=B3: > > > > > > > The multi-worker autovacuum is a great new addition to help part of > > > > that problem (starvation) but it is not help against the other > > > > (resource consumption, specifically IO). > > > > > > Huh, autovac will consume exactly the same amount of I/O as a > > > user-induced vacuum, so I don't see your point. > > > > It can be determined "when" the I/O is used. > > Future plans call for being able to change autovac parameters depending > on time of day, so you will be able to decide that using autovacuum too. > > > > Remember, we're not adding VACUUM SCHEMA in 8.2 so it doesn't make an= y > > > sense to try to compare it against the old autovac. And you can bet > > > that in 8.4 autovac will have even more goodies. > > > > I assume you mean 8.3, but that is certainly a valid point. > > No, I meant 8.4 --- the feature set of 8.3 is already set on stone. So > VACUUM SCHEMA has to compete with whatever we're able to do for the > release following that one. i think even when autovacuum is uber-perfect , the manual overriding commands like VACUUM and utilities like VACUUMDB will still exist for a lon= g time to come, so there is a case of improving them if required. Maybe it would be just easier to add a schema switch to VACUUMDB, which can just query the catalogs to find which tables to vacuum, this way no parser changes are involved or any tinkering with the backend code. > > -- > Alvaro Herrera > http://www.advogato.org/person/alvherre > "Entristecido, Wutra (canci=F3n de Las Barreras) > echa a Freyr a rodar > y a nosotros al mar" > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq > --=20 Usama Munir Dar http://linkedin.com/in/usamadar Consultant Architect Cell:+92 321 5020666 Skype: usamadar ------=_Part_3343_26336637.1196628683769 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

On Dec 2, 2007 6:31 AM, Alvaro Herrera &= lt;alvherre@alvh.no-ip.org&g= t; wrote:
Joshua D. Drake escribi=F3:
> On Fri, 30 Nov 20= 07 19:34:02 -0300
> Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@alvh.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > Jo= shua D. Drake escribi=C3=B3:
> >
> > > The multi-worke= r autovacuum is a great new addition to help part of
> > > that= problem (starvation) but it is not help against the other
> > >= ; (resource consumption, specifically IO).
> >
> > Huh, autovac will consume exactly the same amoun= t of I/O as a
> > user-induced vacuum, so I don't see your poi= nt.
>
> It can be determined "when" the I/O is used.

Future plans call for being able to change autovac parameters= depending
on time of day, so you will be able to decide that using auto= vacuum too.

> > Remember, we're not = adding VACUUM SCHEMA in=20 8.2 so it doesn't make any
> > sense to try to compare it agai= nst the old autovac.  And you can bet
> > that in 8.4 autovac= will have even more goodies.
>
> I assume you mean 8.3, but th= at is certainly a valid point.

No, I meant 8.4 --- the feature set of 8.3 is already set on = stone.  So
VACUUM SCHEMA has to compete with whatever we're abl= e to do for the
release following that one.

i think= even when autovacuum is uber-perfect , the manual overriding commands like= VACUUM and utilities like VACUUMDB will still exist for a long time to com= e, so there is a case of improving them if required.  Maybe it would b= e just easier to add a schema switch to VACUUMDB, which can just query the = catalogs to find which tables to vacuum, this way no parser changes are inv= olved or any tinkering with the backend code.


--
Alvaro Herrera       &nbs= p;                 http://www.advogato.org/person/alvherre
"Entristecido, Wutra &n= bsp;                   (canci= =F3n de Las Barreras)
echa a Freyr a rodar
y a nosotros al mar"<= br>

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?

      &n= bsp;       http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq



--
Usa= ma Munir Dar http://linkedin.co= m/in/usamadar
Consultant Architect
Cell:+92 321 5020666
Skype:= usamadar=20
------=_Part_3343_26336637.1196628683769-- From ajs@crankycanuck.ca Mon Dec 3 07:26:26 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77172E003F for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 03:26:26 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15464-04 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 03:26:23 -0400 (AST) Received: from main2.mycybernet.net (main2.mycybernet.net [209.222.63.140]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3BA2E0037 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 03:26:23 -0400 (AST) Received: from 227-54-222-209.mycybernet.net ([209.222.54.227] helo=crankycanuck.ca) by main2.mycybernet.net with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Iz5h8-00043Y-FW for pgsql-admin@postgresql.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 02:26:22 -0500 Received: by crankycanuck.ca (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2A80850473; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:26:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:26:17 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org Subject: Re: Enhancement request Message-ID: <20071203072617.GF18421@crankycanuck.ca> Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , pgsql-admin@postgresql.org References: <36e682920711301218m703b3c67s6f547fd7b9b60e7c@mail.gmail.com> <7099.1196458205@sss.pgh.pa.us> <36e682920711301332q1cce5db9qe44fb068fcd5608d@mail.gmail.com> <7341.1196459304@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071130140005.18521c54@jd-laptop> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200712/4 X-Sequence-Number: 27521 On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 02:00:05PM -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Yes autovacuum is great for general low use scenarios. Throw it at a > database doing hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of transactions > an hour that has relations that in the multiple hundred gig range and > autovacuum is useless for a good portion of that database. This isn't a good argument for adding new knobs, though. It's an argument for using the limited resources to make autovacuum better. Compare with the never-ending arguments for index hints. A From greg@turnstep.com Wed Dec 5 14:09:45 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9A642E3143 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:09:45 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02463-06 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:09:40 -0400 (AST) Received: from tinlc.com (unknown [72.18.206.65]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E25422E01D6 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:09:40 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by tinlc.com with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IzuxN-0000IK-9f; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:10:33 -0500 From: "Greg Sabino Mullane" To: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org Subject: Re: Enhancement request X-PGP-Key: 2529 DF6A B8F7 9407 E944 45B4 BC9B 9067 1496 4AC8 X-Request-PGP: http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 In-Reply-To: <10684.1196480658@sss.pgh.pa.us> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:10:33 -0000 X-Mailer: JoyMail 2.01 Message-ID: <09fbbcab762fc5279e45349ce1cbad93@biglumber.com> X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200712/19 X-Sequence-Number: 27536 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 Tom Lane wrote: > Certainly it isn't a mostly-autovacuum world in 8.2 or earlier releases, > but that's irrelevant to whether it makes sense to expend effort on a > feature that would appear (at the earliest) in 8.4. Autovac in 8.3 is > very significantly ahead of where it was in 8.2 --- to the point that > we've turned it on by default --- and I predict that the pressure of > being on by default will really light the afterburners behind its > development. I think it's entirely likely that by the time 8.4 is > ready, it will be perfectly fair to characterize manual vacuuming > as a buggy-whip technology, at least for all but the > three-sigmas-above-normal users. I think this is being extremely over-optimistic. 8.4 is now the next release. Autovacuum still has a long ways to go, and it's still fairly useless out of the box for large relations. I also truly cannot imagine that 8.4 is going to magically solve the vacuum-later vs. performance-now issue. > And I'd *much* rather see development effort going into making that > vision come true, than into adding questionably-useful complexity in > the support for manual vacuuming. It doesn't sound questionable, it sounds like a real-world feature request from someone who would immediately benefit from it. Also, development is not a zero-sum game - someone writing this patch would not necessarily have the skills (or time, or interest) in improving auto-vacuum. I am curious however, as to what the future vision of autovacuum is. Will it be so efficient that it won't impact all but the busiest tables? Will it be able to figure out the best time to vacuum on its own? Will it stop itself mid-run if the need arises? - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com End Point Corporation PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200712050906 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFHVrEMvJuQZxSWSsgRAwK7AKDUv5mV74knvupqfshb77CruKsZLQCfTDD8 w/36OiC7XRu+3kqHP3vi8Og= =pcpb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jd@commandprompt.com Wed Dec 5 16:02:33 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D11B2E106F for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:02:33 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13716-10 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:02:30 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6377B2E3542 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:02:30 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.226] (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB5G2S1I006331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:02:29 -0800 Message-ID: <4756CB9B.3050301@commandprompt.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:02:35 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Sabino Mullane CC: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org Subject: Re: Enhancement request References: <09fbbcab762fc5279e45349ce1cbad93@biglumber.com> In-Reply-To: <09fbbcab762fc5279e45349ce1cbad93@biglumber.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:02:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200712/22 X-Sequence-Number: 27539 Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: RIPEMD160 > > I am curious however, as to what the future vision of autovacuum is. > Will it be so efficient that it won't impact all but the busiest tables? > Will it be able to figure out the best time to vacuum on its own? I believe maintenance windows are on the horizon. Of course it seems that instead of focusing on that, we should just put in a generic job manager. > Will it stop itself mid-run if the need arises? Man I would love this one... coupled with a just enough vacuum. E.g; it calculates a percentage it needs to vacuum, and only vacuums that much. Leaving dead tuples behind. Joshua D. Drake From alvherre@alvh.no-ip.org Wed Dec 5 16:37:07 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6382F2E0079 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:37:07 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 53846-06 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:37:04 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 607052E0051 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:37:03 -0400 (AST) Received: from perhan.alvh.no-ip.org (200-126-109-160.bk7-dsl.surnet.cl [200.126.109.160]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB5GaxTC007333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:37:02 -0800 Received: by perhan.alvh.no-ip.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 621C247C69; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:36:58 -0300 (CLST) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:36:58 -0300 From: Alvaro Herrera To: "Joshua D. Drake" Cc: Greg Sabino Mullane , pgsql-admin@postgresql.org Subject: Re: Enhancement request Message-ID: <20071205163658.GE16991@alvh.no-ip.org> References: <09fbbcab762fc5279e45349ce1cbad93@biglumber.com> <4756CB9B.3050301@commandprompt.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4756CB9B.3050301@commandprompt.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-11) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:37:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200712/23 X-Sequence-Number: 27540 Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: >> I am curious however, as to what the future vision of autovacuum is. >> Will it be so efficient that it won't impact all but the busiest tables? >> Will it be able to figure out the best time to vacuum on its own? > > I believe maintenance windows are on the horizon. Of course it seems that > instead of focusing on that, we should just put in a generic job manager. When I proposed my idea of maintenance window, everybody seemed happy, so that's what got implemented. If you want to propose a generic job manager, be my guest. >> Will it stop itself mid-run if the need arises? > > Man I would love this one... coupled with a just enough vacuum. E.g; it > calculates a percentage it needs to vacuum, and only vacuums that much. > Leaving dead tuples behind. Stop dreaming and start assigning resources for it to get done ;-) The NTT guys have done so and they are ahead of us on that camp. -- Alvaro Herrera Developer, http://www.PostgreSQL.org/ "In Europe they call me Niklaus Wirth; in the US they call me Nickel's worth. That's because in Europe they call me by name, and in the US by value!" From alvherre@alvh.no-ip.org Wed Dec 5 16:38:36 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D87B42E0262 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:38:36 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22962-03-2 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:38:33 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB3C12E02E1 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:38:33 -0400 (AST) Received: from perhan.alvh.no-ip.org (200-126-109-160.bk7-dsl.surnet.cl [200.126.109.160]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB5GcTwK007370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:38:32 -0800 Received: by perhan.alvh.no-ip.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E37D247C69; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:38:28 -0300 (CLST) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:38:28 -0300 From: Alvaro Herrera To: Greg Sabino Mullane Cc: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org Subject: Re: Enhancement request Message-ID: <20071205163828.GF16991@alvh.no-ip.org> References: <10684.1196480658@sss.pgh.pa.us> <09fbbcab762fc5279e45349ce1cbad93@biglumber.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <09fbbcab762fc5279e45349ce1cbad93@biglumber.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-11) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:38:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200712/24 X-Sequence-Number: 27541 Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: > I am curious however, as to what the future vision of autovacuum is. > Will it be so efficient that it won't impact all but the busiest tables? I think so; the guys with the dead space map ideas would know. > Will it be able to figure out the best time to vacuum on its own? No -- the admin will still need to configure it, of course. > Will it stop itself mid-run if the need arises? That's the idea if we get cancellable vacuum, yes. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/5ZYLFMCVHXC Thou shalt study thy libraries and strive not to reinvent them without cause, that thy code may be short and readable and thy days pleasant and productive. (7th Commandment for C Programmers) From lance@illinois.edu Tue Mar 4 14:49:59 2014 Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WKqfO-0001zr-Vo for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 14:49:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with smtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WKqfN-00087W-EJ for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 14:49:57 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WKqf7-0007l0-JG for pgsql-admin@postgresql.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 14:49:41 +0000 Received: from pps05.cites.illinois.edu ([192.17.82.72]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WKqf2-0002AC-QU for pgsql-admin@postgresql.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 14:49:40 +0000 Received: from chiht1.cites.illinois.edu (chiht1.cites.illinois.edu [64.22.177.73]) by pps05.cites.illinois.edu (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s24EnXa3000825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2014 08:49:33 -0600 Received: from CITESMBX1.ad.uillinois.edu ([169.254.3.130]) by CHIHT1.ad.uillinois.edu ([64.22.177.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Tue, 4 Mar 2014 08:49:33 -0600 From: "Campbell, Lance" To: "pgsql-admin@postgresql.org" Subject: Enhancement Request Thread-Topic: Enhancement Request Thread-Index: Ac83uPPwv7hIAevnQkGJ9CfGiF2ytw== Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 14:49:32 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [128.174.117.17] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_B75CD08C73BD3543B97E4EF3964B7D701F79BDF8CITESMBX1aduill_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Details: rule=cautious_plus_nq_notspam policy=cautious_plus_nq score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1305240000 definitions=main-1403040059 X-Spam-OrigSender: lance@illinois.edu X-Spam-Bar: X-Pg-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) List-Archive: List-Help: List-ID: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Mailing-List: pgsql-admin Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org --_004_B75CD08C73BD3543B97E4EF3964B7D701F79BDF8CITESMBX1aduill_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B75CD08C73BD3543B97E4EF3964B7D701F79BDF8CITESMBX1aduill_" --_000_B75CD08C73BD3543B97E4EF3964B7D701F79BDF8CITESMBX1aduill_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Web Services at the University of Illinois has been using PostgreSQL for 11= years for serving up web content. We generate around two million pages of= database driven content a month. We love the work you are doing. I have an enhancement request. Sometimes when using a database there is a = need to have particular tables always in memory. An example of this would = be our web application session data. The session data is used by a cluster= of tomcat nodes. It would be nice to have a way to say to PostgreSQL, put= this particular table data in memory always. If you already have this fea= ture please let me know. There would probably also need to be a way to see= how much data is being taken up by these preferred tables. This would pro= bably require other things to also be put into memory as well like indexes. To get around this issue we are planning on implementing a second PostgreSQ= L database on a dedicated server in order to make sure the session data is = always in memory. But it would be nice to not actually have a second serve= r for just session data if we really don't need it. Thanks for considering this idea. Thanks, Lance Campbell Software Architect Web Services at Public Affairs 217-333-0382 [University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign logo] --_000_B75CD08C73BD3543B97E4EF3964B7D701F79BDF8CITESMBX1aduill_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Web Services at the University of Illinois has been = using PostgreSQL for 11 years for serving up web content.  We generate= around two million pages of database driven content a month.  We love= the work you are doing.

 

I have an enhancement request.  Sometimes when = using a database there is a need to have particular tables always in memory= .  An example of this would be our web application session data. = The session data is used by a cluster of tomcat nodes.  It would be nice to have a way to say to PostgreSQL, put this= particular table data in memory always.  If you already have this fea= ture please let me know.  There would probably also need to be a way t= o see how much data is being taken up by these preferred tables.  This would probably require other things to also b= e put into memory as well like indexes. 

 

To get around this issue we are planning on implemen= ting a second PostgreSQL database on a dedicated server in order to make su= re the session data is always in memory.  But it would be nice to not = actually have a second server for just session data if we really don’t need it.

 

Thanks for considering this idea.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Lance C= ampbell

Software Architect

Web Services at Public Affairs

217-333-0382

3D"University

 

 

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<0N1X00AZ033YA040@mfe1.sorint.it> for pgsql-admin@postgresql.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:02:32 +0100 (CET) Message-id: <5315EAF7.2060703@sorint.it> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:02:15 +0100 From: Marcello Lorenzi User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130110 Thunderbird/17.0.2 To: "Campbell, Lance" Cc: "pgsql-admin@postgresql.org" Subject: Re: Enhancement Request References: In-reply-to: X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrAKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsVy5RLXQl3O16LBBpM2Mllca1nN5sDocWHf NPYAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujB8P29gL7vQxVix7P5u5gfFKfRcjJ4eEgInE/rtXWCFsMYkL 99azdTFycQgJbGOUmPj/GgtIgldAUOLH5HtgNrNAmMTZb4/ZQGwhgU4miU931bsYOYBqNCTO PZUCCbMIqEq0LZ8OVsImoC1xb/I3sFZRgQiJH3u3MoLYIgJaEufWvmUEaWUWsJU4/UUaJCwM NOXt3iYmiOnBEpfvPAUbwykQIrH7+XWWCYz8s5AcNAvJQRC2tcTKSdsYZ4FNlZc4eF4WIhwg MenLfXYIW1vi+ckWJgwl+hId385ATRSXOLn9MNRERYlpixoYFzByrWLkz03MzDHSK84vAsaA XmbJJkZIBAjtYHz2WeQQowAHoxIP74cZIsFCrIllxZW5hxglOZiURHmFX4gGC/El5adUZiQW 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In this case you can reach the data on memory, but you have to mount and create the table to every server restart. Marcello On 03/04/2014 03:49 PM, Campbell, Lance wrote: > > Web Services at the University of Illinois has been using PostgreSQL > for 11 years for serving up web content. We generate around two > million pages of database driven content a month. We love the work > you are doing. > > I have an enhancement request. Sometimes when using a database there > is a need to have particular tables always in memory. An example of > this would be our web application session data. The session data is > used by a cluster of tomcat nodes. It would be nice to have a way to > say to PostgreSQL, put this particular table data in memory always. > If you already have this feature please let me know. There would > probably also need to be a way to see how much data is being taken up > by these preferred tables. This would probably require other things > to also be put into memory as well like indexes. > > To get around this issue we are planning on implementing a second > PostgreSQL database on a dedicated server in order to make sure the > session data is always in memory. But it would be nice to not > actually have a second server for just session data if we really don't > need it. > > Thanks for considering this idea. > > Thanks, > > Lance Campbell > > Software Architect > > Web Services at Public Affairs > > 217-333-0382 > > University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign logo > --Boundary_(ID_8pPspM8qXMQpuoy8+BbI4w) Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="Boundary_(ID_No6kaAYOqvN3GsbfCslgGA)" --Boundary_(ID_No6kaAYOqvN3GsbfCslgGA) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Lance,
I don't know if you can create a tmpfs on your server and move the table with a tablespace to the tmpfs mountpoint. In this case you can reach the data on memory, but you have to mount and create the table to every server restart.

Marcello

On 03/04/2014 03:49 PM, Campbell, Lance wrote:

Web Services at the University of Illinois has been using PostgreSQL for 11 years for serving up web content.  We generate around two million pages of database driven content a month.  We love the work you are doing.

 

I have an enhancement request.  Sometimes when using a database there is a need to have particular tables always in memory.  An example of this would be our web application session data.  The session data is used by a cluster of tomcat nodes.  It would be nice to have a way to say to PostgreSQL, put this particular table data in memory always.  If you already have this feature please let me know.  There would probably also need to be a way to see how much data is being taken up by these preferred tables.  This would probably require other things to also be put into memory as well like indexes. 

 

To get around this issue we are planning on implementing a second PostgreSQL database on a dedicated server in order to make sure the session data is always in memory.  But it would be nice to not actually have a second server for just session data if we really don’t need it.

 

Thanks for considering this idea.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Lance Campbell

Software Architect

Web Services at Public Affairs

217-333-0382

University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign logo

 

 


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X-SMTP-Auth: no X-SMTP-Auth: no Received: from aart.rice.edu (aart.rice.edu [168.7.56.48]) by mh1.mail.rice.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F10B4601ED; Tue, 4 Mar 2014 09:59:10 -0600 (CST) Received: by aart.rice.edu (Postfix, from userid 18612) id 3567D1005F3; Tue, 4 Mar 2014 09:59:10 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 09:59:10 -0600 From: "ktm@rice.edu" To: "Campbell, Lance" Cc: "pgsql-admin@postgresql.org" Subject: Re: Enhancement Request Message-ID: <20140304155910.GA1150@aart.rice.edu> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-12-10) X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 kscore.is_bulkscore=0 kscore.compositescore=0 circleOfTrustscore=0 compositescore=0.996772200306069 urlsuspect_oldscore=0.996772200306069 suspectscore=0 recipient_domain_to_sender_totalscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 kscore.is_spamscore=0 recipient_to_sender_totalscore=0 recipient_domain_to_sender_domain_totalscore=7269 rbsscore=0.996772200306069 spamscore=0 recipient_to_sender_domain_totalscore=0 urlsuspectscore=0.9 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1305240000 definitions=main-1403040071 X-Pg-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) List-Archive: List-Help: List-ID: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Mailing-List: pgsql-admin Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org On Tue, Mar 04, 2014 at 02:49:32PM +0000, Campbell, Lance wrote: > Web Services at the University of Illinois has been using PostgreSQL for 11 years for serving up web content. We generate around two million pages of database driven content a month. We love the work you are doing. > > I have an enhancement request. Sometimes when using a database there is a need to have particular tables always in memory. An example of this would be our web application session data. The session data is used by a cluster of tomcat nodes. It would be nice to have a way to say to PostgreSQL, put this particular table data in memory always. If you already have this feature please let me know. There would probably also need to be a way to see how much data is being taken up by these preferred tables. This would probably require other things to also be put into memory as well like indexes. > > To get around this issue we are planning on implementing a second PostgreSQL database on a dedicated server in order to make sure the session data is always in memory. But it would be nice to not actually have a second server for just session data if we really don't need it. > > Thanks for considering this idea. > Hi Lance, You might also want to take a look at pgmemcache: http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgmemcache/ It is a PostgreSQL interface to memcached which seems like it would fit your needs for session data very well. The other option that was already mentioned is to make a tmpfs tablespace. Regards, Ken -- Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin From polobo@yahoo.com Tue Mar 4 16:24:20 2014 Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WKs8i-0005n0-DV for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:24:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with smtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WKs8h-0005hb-Sh for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:24:19 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:7903:4::125]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WKs8g-0005fr-Kd for pgsql-admin@postgresql.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:24:18 +0000 Received: from sam.nabble.com ([216.139.236.26]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WKs8d-00024D-PO for pgsql-admin@postgresql.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:24:17 +0000 Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WKs8d-0001Yf-6w for pgsql-admin@postgresql.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 08:24:15 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 08:24:15 -0800 (PST) From: David Johnston To: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org Message-ID: <1393950255194-5794643.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <5315EAF7.2060703@sorint.it> References: <5315EAF7.2060703@sorint.it> Subject: Re: Enhancement Request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Pg-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) List-Archive: List-Help: List-ID: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Mailing-List: pgsql-admin Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org Marcello Lorenzi wrote > Hi Lance, > I don't know if you can create a tmpfs on your server and move the table > with a tablespace to the tmpfs mountpoint. In this case you can reach > the data on memory, but you have to mount and create the table to every > server restart. Have you done this successfully, including failure testing? If not then it is not something you should recommend. Recent comments on the lists indicate that mounting tablespaces on volatile filesystems is not a valid configuration since the tablespace and its contents must be present as server startup. You would never get a chance to "create the table" since the server would not boot. David J. -- View this message in context: http://postgresql.1045698.n5.nabble.com/Enhancement-Request-tp5794609p5794643.html Sent from the PostgreSQL - admin mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin From lance@illinois.edu Wed Jan 31 19:29:40 2024 Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVGHN-00FrJM-Qd for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 19:29:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVGHM-00G9Cq-KM for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 19:29:48 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVGHL-00G9Cf-PP for pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported LIMIT. I can already feel the= dislike for this post coming back in my direction. I have had numerous times over the years where I need to delete a lot of ro= ws from a table but because each row is linked to so many other tables it w= ill cause a problem in performance if I don't limit the size of the deletio= n. Just throwing this out there. Thanks, Lance --_000_SJ0PR11MB56294F4A249D780BC3A18330DE7C2SJ0PR11MB5629namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported LIMIT.= I can already feel the dislike for this post coming back in my direction.<= o:p>

 

I have had numerous times over the years where I nee= d to delete a lot of rows from a table but because each row is linked to so= many other tables it will cause a problem in performance if I don’t = limit the size of the deletion.

 

Just throwing this out there.

 

Thanks,

 

Lance

--_000_SJ0PR11MB56294F4A249D780BC3A18330DE7C2SJ0PR11MB5629namp_-- From MichaelDBA@sqlexec.com Wed Jan 31 19:32:15 2024 Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVGJt-00FrfF-4J for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 19:32:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVGJs-00GCYl-8R for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 19:32:24 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVGJr-00GCYd-B8 for pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 19:32:23 +0000 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.196]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVGJo-004NUI-Ab for pgsql-admin@postgresql.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 19:32:22 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sqlexec.com; s=s1-ionos; t=1706729537; x=1707334337; i=michaeldba@sqlexec.com; bh=HcEIdTRFkdOPfriv5DH9BKlvOrXWnQnUOTPvpnJNxOk=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date: In-Reply-To; b=fF3ZzTOtXboKnbjqMTHiV+18ysDpyXYv+XCJ7lQa5b7OUZccatDjyMI0L330A8VA jHX0YUtjBI/gapoJ0yeVAIQZmk/dMxb2f18rKxjEd96UOpIu80m/As6hjTPOtGUZh 8Rm8/BasDBzBDpd4Gftim9KuOZm3F0/yGSFRcedCnKupYiYQN0JxXmAmHlTHhtJKY vbXf5uKFpKaIdMGyZIixlVaNg6ejU5u4gIKdZJpcIyF0FT7F1bXv6Zlo/BcpV2dKf vksaYFnogWULxcOIvfA1ExQmQpxi9/ujJFTp4fZWNNRcFZa875Msf9XOw1OO92rKC Gbe9bRhdW8v94Op2jw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 55c96926-9e95-11ee-ae09-1f7a4046a0f6 Received: from [192.168.0.142] ([73.171.48.12]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lm2cB-1qwCgL3Vfl-00Zhyz; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 20:32:17 +0100 Subject: Re: Enhancement Request To: "Campbell, Lance" Cc: "pgsql-admin@postgresql.org" References: From: MichaelDBA Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 14:32:15 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 PostboxApp/7.0.60 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------73951E170CBEA92722A256BB" Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:nQ0+jtMyfC0pxJ3QDNRz+fC+NFqk8uHm1Ed4EUAgckmeAiwXbUk PR3agjNTCqOPejLqghTqmRvpf54YO9bmksEgTL29zQc6MYIAFcSh+h1FNghmUHLmS9txdcE NnqxWWXOhB4W5XaTn5JTd/WxPI+SxQv0udFibAJ5ogsLt9HRPoe7Je9liYBB+6rcXUaAi1T 2e08sqDRgv222NR0zIoww== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:daoL9bTbdmU=;m9M2HT1E+Drt0XeEM7c5BE5Y5FO EeKEBSq/17+4ZD2yjkyOfBppTOoHNvT2NZ0yaqMw8PiP/n09IoDgvmKD4jAwJLUGADJv3oIjY 7vLwC/cWMsZrOrwJ57c+ntEC/JKoPPSvhnn+kar4LCxyG+aqYY2W6wqefkWlC4aqtliAb4IKw YniZo/UHjMhkC/P6yCfMesWKuJBloaXburOdpb+N1mi2BlhZDWIY0jD+0EbPNnXs6q11FOOv4 A3BJoaRm4FyOiVwNTK/uA1yFen1KUtEVWzvzovpxgK+G4gYO08VphZWONAhNFQV4zJFHnTXPo cn9Q9wg6dkxodMiP2cAGWBsFoO3GhhJJaQzcDFMUJwgO1/REnAOcx2+mWVzt/egGJmF+XTVdR lAfguu9sxHi797bMzcARIu/eJvdS7Spg04rDmzwvCD6sFCXdo2h7ulhvByBzJTX4emRmiYmKD ZHSk0ZmEKHvaIfmp3ZMZMJdMqrUzmRiNiA+mpJCl8acbBhjVx2WpkSpGnOPFT+W/TC0aEiNr/ bZ+sDlY/+tYIfU0RGtykcMB3At6w3/dAMS5pM87Ct5CuOfgyoA/SX8lJ4ii/qMY89xR9WmRlo xXXn87ZyC+TkQoR9TipG17S68b6SwZtZ/Q3LhPrltZpL71QVFDI1aqR2M2x1r1pgVQy7fF9Ns FoYIseD+s5wIFf66fCX82+kjOYVV7cVjM6AJOFNTWqvN2mVdFjpy6EBqTxQ6jo5ocUU7jZ5L/ BisLNPQpIHUeDtAZPJaBgf8K7W4UZryG4yEMnh9A89T41Ohg0SyWLo= List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------73951E170CBEA92722A256BB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cheat a bit.... Use a CTE with a limit on the select and then delete everything from the CTE. Campbell, Lance wrote on 1/31/2024 2:29 PM: > > It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported LIMIT. I can already > feel the dislike for this post coming back in my direction. > > I have had numerous times over the years where I need to delete a lot > of rows from a table but because each row is linked to so many other > tables it will cause a problem in performance if I don=92t limit the > size of the deletion. > > Just throwing this out there. > > Thanks, > > Lance > Regards, Michael Vitale Michaeldba@sqlexec.com 703-600-9343 --------------73951E170CBEA92722A256BB Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------F65F48B02A129F0B0EEDE8E5" --------------F65F48B02A129F0B0EEDE8E5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cheat a bit....
Use a CTE with a limit on the select and then delete everything from the CTE.


Campbell, Lance wrote on 1/31/2024 2:29 PM:

It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported LIMIT. I can already feel the dislike for this post coming back in my direction.

=A0

I have had numerous times over the years where I need to delete a lot of rows from a table but because each row is linked to so many other tables it will cause a problem in performance if I don=92t limit the size of the deletion.

=A0

Just throwing this out there.

=A0

Thanks,

=A0

Lance



Regards,

Michael Vitale

Michae= ldba@sqlexec.com

703-600-9343

=A0
3D""

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[99.97.91.220]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ck9-20020a05690c0b8900b005de7cb49a20sm3947236ywb.44.2024.01.31.11.32.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 31 Jan 2024 11:32:59 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.300.61.1.2\)) Subject: Re: Enhancement Request From: Alex Balashov In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 14:32:48 -0500 Cc: "Campbell, Lance" , "pgsql-admin@postgresql.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3E049D54-E3A8-4940-87D1-B65CED1C5C26@evaristesys.com> References: To: MichaelDBA X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.300.61.1.2) List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk > On 31 Jan 2024, at 14:32, MichaelDBA wrote: >=20 > Cheat a bit.... > Use a CTE with a limit on the select and then delete everything from = the CTE. Whoa! Thank you for that idea. That's thinking with portals. --=20 Alex Balashov Principal Consultant Evariste Systems LLC Web: https://evaristesys.com Tel: +1-706-510-6800 From Nick.Hajek@vishay.com Wed Jan 31 19:34:08 2024 Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVGLl-00Frrb-8U for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 19:34:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVGLk-00GJAr-3S for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 19:34:20 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVGLj-00GJAi-AH for pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 19:34:19 +0000 Received: from mail-bn8nam12on2090.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.107.237.90] helo=NAM12-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVGLf-004NV8-Lt for pgsql-admin@postgresql.org; 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boundary="_000_CH0PR02MB8106DCF6427AD9045CB5DD77E57C2CH0PR02MB8106namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: vishay.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CH0PR02MB8106.namprd02.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 53ad5837-3527-49f7-36f5-08dc229397eb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Jan 2024 19:34:08.3955 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5874b827-1966-41df-a5b7-b79ec04dab64 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: pMQwq0ymjIHvrVpB00e+pbj5zr55ydKw9znZx4hJ+7deLrEwaW1OBcUxF+PPHkvI0PFtrHvzbu2CFOs3sUxXzw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO1PR02MB8393 List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --_000_CH0PR02MB8106DCF6427AD9045CB5DD77E57C2CH0PR02MB8106namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported LIMIT. I can already feel = the dislike for this post coming back in my direction. // I have had numerous times over the years where I need to delete a lot of= rows from a table but because each row is linked to so many other tables i= t will cause // a problem in performance if I don't limit the size of the d= eletion. I use a query like this to accomplish a limited deletion - Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select table1.id from table1 limit y= ourlimitnumber) --_000_CH0PR02MB8106DCF6427AD9045CB5DD77E57C2CH0PR02MB8106namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

// It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported LIM= IT. I can already feel the dislike for this post coming back in my directio= n.

 

// I have had numerous times over the years where I = need to delete a lot of rows from a table but because each row is linked to= so many other tables it will cause // a problem in performance if I don= 217;t limit the size of the deletion.

 

I use a query like this to accomplish a limited dele= tion –

 

Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select table1= .id from table1 limit yourlimitnumber)

 

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Wed, 31 Jan 2024 20:47:10 +0000 From: M Sarwar To: "Hajek, Nick" , "Campbell, Lance" , "pgsql-admin@postgresql.org" Subject: Re: Enhancement Request Thread-Topic: Enhancement Request Thread-Index: AdpUewWoEVZkw71ZQBOIX/SyDvBMwgAASDagAAKW2P4= Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 20:47:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-Mentions: Nick.Hajek@vishay.com X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [au+gDGGGI51s7WTRmZrWoPot+TPeJeOluwYyrDamL53rQSLLgbQxkG5AgcUBPnoc] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM4PR19MB5978:EE_|MW4PR19MB6650:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9d8eabfd-421c-4eb3-3875-08dc229dcbf7 x-ms-exchange-slblob-mailprops: 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 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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boundary="_000_DM4PR19MB5978E8D391D422D086632D89D37C2DM4PR19MB5978namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM4PR19MB5978.namprd19.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9d8eabfd-421c-4eb3-3875-08dc229dcbf7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Jan 2024 20:47:10.5904 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MW4PR19MB6650 List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --_000_DM4PR19MB5978E8D391D422D086632D89D37C2DM4PR19MB5978namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nick, @Hajek, Nick Are you confirming that DELETE FROM - LIMIT is working? Thanks, Sarwar ________________________________ From: Hajek, Nick Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 2:34 PM To: Campbell, Lance ; pgsql-admin@postgresql.org Subject: RE: Enhancement Request // It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported LIMIT. I can already feel = the dislike for this post coming back in my direction. // I have had numerous times over the years where I need to delete a lot of= rows from a table but because each row is linked to so many other tables i= t will cause // a problem in performance if I don=92t limit the size of the= deletion. I use a query like this to accomplish a limited deletion =96 Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select table1.id from table1 limit y= ourlimitnumber) --_000_DM4PR19MB5978E8D391D422D086632D89D37C2DM4PR19MB5978namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Nick,
@Hajek, Nick
Are you confirming that DELETE FROM - LIMIT is working?
Thanks,
Sarwar

From: Hajek, Nick <Nick.= Hajek@vishay.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 2:34 PM
To: Campbell, Lance <lance@illinois.edu>; pgsql-admin@postgres= ql.org <pgsql-admin@postgresql.org>
Subject: RE: Enhancement Request
 

// It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported L= IMIT. I can already feel the dislike for this post coming back in my direct= ion.

 

// I have had numerous times over the years where = I need to delete a lot of rows from a table but because each row is linked = to so many other tables it will cause // a problem in performance if I don= =92t limit the size of the deletion.

 

I use a query like this to accomplish a limited de= letion =96

 

Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select tabl= e1.id from table1 limit yourlimitnumber)

 

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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No. I was submitting a request that we could add LIMIT to DELETE FROM. Ther= e are work arounds for this. But it would be nice to skip the work arounds. From: M Sarwar Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 2:47 PM To: Hajek, Nick ; Campbell, Lance ; pgsql-admin@postgresql.org Subject: Re: Enhancement Request Nick, @Hajek, Nick Are you confirming that DELETE FROM - LIMIT is working? Thanks, Sarwar ________________________________ From: Hajek, Nick > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 2:34 PM To: Campbell, Lance >; pgsql-= admin@postgresql.org > Subject: RE: Enhancement Request // It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported LIMIT. I can already feel = the dislike for this post coming back in my direction. // I have had numerous times over the years where I need to delete a lot of= rows from a table but because each row is linked to so many other tables i= t will cause // a problem in performance if I don't limit the size of the d= eletion. I use a query like this to accomplish a limited deletion - Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select table1.id from table1 limit y= ourlimitnumber) --_000_SJ0PR11MB562962A2E3FE47E79BB85C26DE7C2SJ0PR11MB5629namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

No. I was submitting a request that we could add LIM= IT to DELETE FROM. There are work arounds for this. But it would be nice to= skip the work arounds.

 

From: M Sarwar <sarwarmd02@outlook.com>=
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 2:47 PM
To: Hajek, Nick <Nick.Hajek@vishay.com>; Campbell, Lance <l= ance@illinois.edu>; pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: Enhancement Request

 

Nick,

Are you= confirming that DELETE FROM - LIMIT is working?

Thanks,=

Sarwar<= o:p>

&n= bsp;

From: Hajek, Nick <Nick.Hajek@vishay.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 2:34 PM
To: Campbell, Lance <lance@= illinois.edu>; pgsql-admin@postgresql.org <pgsql-admin@postgresql.= org>
Subject: RE: Enhancement Request

 

// It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported LI= MIT. I can already feel the dislike for this post coming back in my directi= on.

 

// I have had numerous times over the years where I= need to delete a lot of rows from a table but because each row is linked t= o so many other tables it will cause // a problem in performance if I don&#= 8217;t limit the size of the deletion.

 

I use a query like this to accomplish a limited del= etion –

 

Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select table= 1.id from table1 limit yourlimitnumber)

 

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No, I don't believe you can use limit in the delete itself but you can use = it in a subselect and accomplish the same thing as shown in the example bel= ow. // It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported LIMIT. I can already feel = the dislike for this post coming back in my direction. // I have had numerous times over the years where I need to delete a lot of= rows from a table but because each row is linked to so many other tables i= t will cause // a problem in performance if I don't limit the size of the d= eletion. I use a query like this to accomplish a limited deletion - Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select table1.id from table1 limit y= ourlimitnumber) --_000_CH0PR02MB81063B5272D9663465788281E57C2CH0PR02MB8106namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

[ External Email ]

// Are you confirming that DELETE FROM - LIMIT is working?

&n= bsp;

No, I don’t believe you can use limit in the d= elete itself but you can use it in a subselect and accomplish the same thin= g as shown in the example below.

 

 

// It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported LI= MIT. I can already feel the dislike for this post coming back in my directi= on.

 

// I have had numerous times over the years where I= need to delete a lot of rows from a table but because each row is linked t= o so many other tables it will cause // a problem in performance if I don&#= 8217;t limit the size of the deletion.

 

I use a query like this to accomplish a limited del= etion –

 

Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select table= 1.id from table1 limit yourlimitnumber)

 

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Wed, 31 Jan 2024 20:55:34 +0000 From: M Sarwar To: "Hajek, Nick" , "Campbell, Lance" , "pgsql-admin@postgresql.org" Subject: Re: Enhancement Request Thread-Topic: Enhancement Request Thread-Index: AdpUewWoEVZkw71ZQBOIX/SyDvBMwgAASDagAAKW2P4AABEWwAAANMEN Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 20:55:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [9vdIADrOncUgz5MAAs5quVhBbAm+BYs7NzG8O567rVNz73ayMV3MhHEUKMowfcej] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM4PR19MB5978:EE_|MN0PR19MB5825:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b4b4cdd7-847d-43ba-4e9b-08dc229ef86b x-ms-exchange-slblob-mailprops: gMiuAN0LASIb412QTZxKDz8EHpZuYH8ymkHR1qg/YazTpufV/BIO2JSQ+sKjrgEYiDzw8s+dIuk51AYjsI7nlPxBrrZMOIuSPCKbRQUMXjU49RdsDrEBqgnJaxVwEDGBjA/5nq4c3/IJyJforzGus6jwd1+IrFQBBTllCryi6P7fSXrCCAQwtval1SpTSVy0Lpetyj4+SMRqDy4QBRtc2MfCzOh4UF3W+7QDHKu9em5LPJvRLdifwSJAfSVnzY0biopshAdZt/lvW+zCXq2OjdeRs0ARpB4oFaR3g26Q5JNPk0imzL32hFbowkURCO0lcF1tF0KUVZjpGdAvNqNiCdEwTSy1vi1mGZhEQSp7pjA3hS3Jk4pIeEonUNYGPlqQXhesnG3Sq9QpKMezlVXgOtStSpoIIsrwLENUmfFrK7HXD1Omh1NsgrU0x3z/fRlYsdJB8s9PQ4DP9C1HrxEnxIeY3OzYlJKBTn7IvVW3gdDrCYFcbc1GN9v08VIrmI+6Pnj445ZOrt8CnF3oy5fkVB+OBJ7LLrd5WFqGNoGdHCsz3Z4HDzMFMuFW37jQJMFM+jmI5z8mdGA6eznmIMUfcyxbO/jksmldURgMLLNMK1c07h0cEO1CK9q6xLXBhHkdIFyRhGxZGNIaP0eDNpBNjl07c8M73lnS46HNdXP+m+19kJ5+XvxOkEfXsMuxnuOMYqpBjA3k8d3B7Kcm7pRfwA== x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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boundary="_000_DM4PR19MB597863302D9DE35498BC4CA7D37C2DM4PR19MB5978namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM4PR19MB5978.namprd19.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b4b4cdd7-847d-43ba-4e9b-08dc229ef86b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Jan 2024 20:55:34.7400 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN0PR19MB5825 List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --_000_DM4PR19MB597863302D9DE35498BC4CA7D37C2DM4PR19MB5978namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If they allow DELETE FROM-LIMT to work, it is going to harm the general in= terest of the database. In my opinion, that should not be implemented. Thanks, Sarwar ________________________________ From: Hajek, Nick Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 3:50 PM To: M Sarwar ; Campbell, Lance = ; pgsql-admin@postgresql.org Subject: RE: Enhancement Request [ External Email ] // Are you confirming that DELETE FROM - LIMIT is working? No, I don=92t believe you can use limit in the delete itself but you can us= e it in a subselect and accomplish the same thing as shown in the example b= elow. // It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported LIMIT. I can already feel = the dislike for this post coming back in my direction. // I have had numerous times over the years where I need to delete a lot of= rows from a table but because each row is linked to so many other tables i= t will cause // a problem in performance if I don=92t limit the size of the= deletion. I use a query like this to accomplish a limited deletion =96 Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select table1.id from table1 limit y= ourlimitnumber) --_000_DM4PR19MB597863302D9DE35498BC4CA7D37C2DM4PR19MB5978namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If they allow DELETE FROM-LIMT to work, it is going to harm  the gener= al interest of the database.
In my opinion, that should not be implemented.
Thanks,
Sarwar

From: Hajek, Nick <Nick.= Hajek@vishay.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 3:50 PM
To: M Sarwar <sarwarmd02@outlook.com>; Campbell, Lance <lan= ce@illinois.edu>; pgsql-admin@postgresql.org <pgsql-admin@postgresql.= org>
Subject: RE: Enhancement Request
 

 

 

[ External Email ]

// Are you confirming that DELETE FROM - LIMIT is working?

&nbs= p;

No, I don=92t believe you can use limit in the del= ete itself but you can use it in a subselect and accomplish the same thing = as shown in the example below.

 

 

// It would be nice if the DELETE FROM supported = LIMIT. I can already feel the dislike for this post coming back in my direc= tion.

 

// I have had numerous times over the years where= I need to delete a lot of rows from a table but because each row is linked= to so many other tables it will cause // a problem in performance if I don= =92t limit the size of the deletion.

 

I use a query like this to accomplish a limited d= eletion =96

 

Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select tab= le1.id from table1 limit yourlimitnumber)

 

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On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 3:55=E2=80=AFPM M= Sarwar <sarwarmd02@outlook.co= m> wrote:
If they allow DELETE FROM-LIMT to work, it is going to harm=C2=A0 the gener= al interest of the database.
In my opinion, that should not be implemented.

Why=C2=A0would it harm the general interes= t of the database?=C2=A0

What even does "the = general interest of the database" mean?
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On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 3:51=E2=80=AFPM H= ajek, Nick <Nick.Hajek@vishay.c= om> wrote:=C2=A0
=C2=A0[snip]
=

=C2=A0Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select table1.id from tab= le1 limit yourlimitnumber)


The IN predicate is only efficient for= a very small number of elements,=C2=A0supported by an index.=C2=A0 People = (including me) who would find DELETE FROM .. LIMIT TO ... useful want to de= lete a *lot* of rows (but not all in one giant statement).
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Johnston" Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2024 19:15:36 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Enhancement Request To: M Sarwar Cc: Ron Johnson , "pgsql-admin@postgresql.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000dff1506105cb085" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --0000000000000dff1506105cb085 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thursday, February 1, 2024, M Sarwar wrote: > > You may collect the opinion from few others and make a decision on this. > This feature has earned a place on the =E2=80=9Cnot worth doing=E2=80=9D pa= ge so a decision has been made. https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Not_Worth_Doing David J. --0000000000000dff1506105cb085 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thursday, February 1, 2024, M Sarwar <sarwarmd02@outlook.com> wrote:
=C2=A0You may collect the opinion f= rom few others and make a decision on this.

This feature has earned= a place on the =E2=80=9Cnot worth doing=E2=80=9D page so a decision has be= en made.



--0000000000000dff1506105cb085-- From ogautherot@gautherot.net Fri Feb 2 08:50:28 2024 Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVpG3-001Xuu-2H for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:50:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVpG1-00BaCv-WF for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:50:46 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVpG1-00BaCl-Cj for pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:50:45 +0000 Received: from mail-ed1-x530.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::530]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVpFy-004fdz-MK for pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:50:44 +0000 Received: by mail-ed1-x530.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-55ff1cebd8eso70797a12.1 for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 00:50:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gautherot.net; s=google; t=1706863840; x=1707468640; darn=lists.postgresql.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=SfNMrO+mz54MuGLIqIiM6/Asy/TZwg0BmELhtwkzUuI=; b=cryS8oPMNUAmaECStBoCxNeEw/fVS9/XaWefOf47GyqWj0IN2lSnXh5jelAGuWegXr 8MHXXvJ1WWzKdM2kbLrpBRIw3uxfKC+jBgcVA6lGp5aznXBUiib+/co8GV3Zf8dW6pJ6 9fxDjAWc8n/CvrIHSgm9rInsukXSPyK8e4nTC6wd4TwzQzHN7lrVL98mmhTaEuMzS1l4 acdJPVAquag9X7IVBdgHPxc3glvIm10Uqeq1r52LdVL9BI3We/+9y+C+xd+rrnPajcGg Eudpmi/MNzTKhUcV36K7FVQac3/PylIHAYqOyMTOZOYAtiuiUCdjR/GUtotA4BlEULnC HPPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706863840; x=1707468640; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=SfNMrO+mz54MuGLIqIiM6/Asy/TZwg0BmELhtwkzUuI=; b=TKTNjkGOlMrGvqVD0hPz7ahJ0TAZVXTE0UQX0sArwh4tyUV9grw6ZpM/aE4E4vPPNc m/F/F0CkMkdA4FudE3l9Dsj8t2q1sdk31Hho2K1XZpA5CoCmIVtOo2IlJ4ddTyeYoeLR 666B8euMKENyHhOjYrV+d4y3LRX3BZ0woAjoDI65ZxkKQU2r4UsSvqgj3khy69tgBeKv m/yb18Q3vcZgCDkiN6ary4W6IZSxxEi2fHSAtfG7n38HabbZN3k0uw0QQFKTpFpdFrdz z404c1ETMkWeLPh+yf/1pJGrKQovzlRWiEknaSSDnys0tYq8JOSCnOz8f1VpSUG22wYw NVqw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyzZpk5tLuhBJR+QoNosMUYQtZPaJNGx6IA0twx1y33s4F4n31m /tjmx/w+m3dEba9/DHT5PjX6z4K6WVHdNhBQc2tPFALZJsTvcTBjPa7sJLf9A/lKaQqZknEyP8D BH/hqMBAIS82UGsXWr3Stj/cWPtIScG6eStT6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE312GAsUCNU4LicBN0j9BzR3at9QeZr798bn1pyJ8nwC7RCjlpw/sxiRw+NiUCCGZvDdOoghBDrqGVJnHSi3o= X-Received: by 2002:a50:9993:0:b0:55f:c756:6869 with SMTP id m19-20020a509993000000b0055fc7566869mr2375144edb.3.1706863840006; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 00:50:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Olivier Gautherot Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2024 09:50:28 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Enhancement Request To: Ron Johnson Cc: Pgsql-admin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dd2d6806106234cb" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --000000000000dd2d6806106234cb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable El jue, 1 feb 2024 2:35, Ron Johnson escribi=C3= =B3: > On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 3:51=E2=80=AFPM Hajek, Nick > wrote: > [snip] > >> Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select table1.id from table1 >> limit yourlimitnumber) >> > > The IN predicate is only efficient for a very small number of > elements, supported by an index. People (including me) who would find > DELETE FROM .. LIMIT TO ... useful want to delete a *lot* of rows (but no= t > all in one giant statement). > Deleting large numbers of rows is a complex task with a lot of hidden issues (index management between other things). Adding a LIMIT paradigm will not simplify it in any way. I remember doing it on tables with over 50 millions rows and had my share of disaster recoveries. Partitions saved my life. Cheers Olivier > --000000000000dd2d6806106234cb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


El jue, 1 feb 2024 2:35, Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com> escribi=C3=B3= :
On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 3:51=E2=80=AFPM Hajek, Nick <Nick.Hajek@vish= ay.com> wrote:=C2=A0
=C2=A0[sni= p]

=C2=A0Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select table1.id from table1 l= imit yourlimitnumber)

<= /blockquote>

The IN predicate is only efficient for a ve= ry small number of elements,=C2=A0supported by an index.=C2=A0 People (incl= uding me) who would find DELETE FROM .. LIMIT TO ... useful want to delete = a *lot* of rows (but not all in one giant statement).

Deleting= large numbers of rows is a complex task with a lot of hidden issues (index= management between other things). Adding a LIMIT paradigm will not simplif= y it in any way. I remember doing it on tables with over 50 millions rows a= nd had my share of disaster recoveries. Partitions saved my life.

Cheers
Oli= vier
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On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 3:50=E2=80=AFAM Ol= ivier Gautherot <ogautherot@= gautherot.net> wrote:


El jue, 1 feb = 2024 2:35, Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com> escribi=C3=B3:
On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 3:51=E2=80=AFPM Hajek, Nick <Nick.Hajek@vi= shay.com> wrote:=C2=A0
=C2=A0[s= nip]

=C2=A0Delete from table1 where table1.id in (select table1.id from table1 l= imit yourlimitnumber)

<= /blockquote>

The IN predicate is only efficient for a ve= ry small number of elements,=C2=A0supported by an index.=C2=A0 People (incl= uding me) who would find DELETE FROM .. LIMIT TO ... useful want to delete = a *lot* of rows (but not all in one giant statement).

Deleting= large numbers of rows is a complex task with a lot of hidden issues (index= management between other things). Adding a LIMIT paradigm will not simplif= y it in any way.

Smaller "= bites" are easier to manage than giant bites.
=C2=A0
I remember doing it on tables with over 50 millions rows and = had my share of disaster recoveries. Partitions saved my life.
<= /blockquote>

You must have been doing something wrong.
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Johnston" CC: Ron Johnson , "pgsql-admin@postgresql.org" Subject: Re: Enhancement Request Thread-Topic: Enhancement Request Thread-Index: AdpUewWoEVZkw71ZQBOIX/SyDvBMwgAASDagAAKW2P4AABEWwAAANMENAAmyGQAAMpN5xQABQWsAABjxJsE= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2024 14:10:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [NFbeblrHw1hEdS3e+XuGkfl8faHPJDBhcCZ8/qkwGuuKRL09NR644rCGFeO7BBey] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM4PR19MB5978:EE_|BL1PR19MB5867:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d54c515b-2aa0-4fb5-5076-08dc23f8c525 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?Windows-1252?Q?DcgBnxv/WW9EXloiZY8mO+8QOHUQQIV5zLRBQ/0RSq/oIC1yMYvHhMav?= =?Windows-1252?Q?G4cuVCA0z1MlfnCI1hjkThzfLvUbkVy5/hsCJxmEyRD7d5fFrY/LY4pN?= =?Windows-1252?Q?IHD9mxT2pq582nL4kE9F0IrwvtE7HvOSuUnWObybi3NESidwvtKLCMiV?= =?Windows-1252?Q?r9ci8LAjQmtCxqMjwCTBB0ZTbV+gHpd2QxBJojZVzKchBu8DcBosXcSv?= =?Windows-1252?Q?Z497iLLWLW4s3S5rrKzKkn7zzVhcP0X52tQecSkve7IfPYZ1nMLnnKKS?= =?Windows-1252?Q?iFIsM0ZuBmJr3YNMNTQCmY3K2eFOJ++nxMlUUiFfZey03aZa9IfQJoxX?= =?Windows-1252?Q?X/yEtGXqk+1I/tt183WcAuqTUjUk5sTydzl0aaos7D7KWb2r+dBgb1Hd?= =?Windows-1252?Q?SZUzgb8E53HWRo2zar8PkE2qib3mwgVRLcJRGzpPILm/7Ia9sg8uMXRZ?= =?Windows-1252?Q?3dJQkuMspHm3/wd4o+hO+AJdVYt4u0qMV1CxarNW2LbqROtKFp0nwlKg?= =?Windows-1252?Q?WYjRYrjajwtcE3wOSQuyAd5XaktJCHNVDACE7rJd9yWrLOqS4nF3u+fA?= =?Windows-1252?Q?e+3Tcfp9RZnMPfQ3OZJ65CFUsUbLxKfvqDrsl6JZkKObtQ3ppPDb0AaP?= =?Windows-1252?Q?nOJnkPALIT7j1j+FlRJVnWDEI7XrvW2zNy/ZNU9F6Rav2ED887qXyE3X?= =?Windows-1252?Q?teExV9klTJGLtncntoaF57gexX2iatsksy9ubUBskbXGvjYK6IwNQKSG?= =?Windows-1252?Q?togmiXo3t0Cc8eB9s+JKw9JZrcALhPX+2sJJMiJSai6LAfDY0IThIm/U?= =?Windows-1252?Q?nLXyHttLFKH4vEUppMyYnpR6vh1omeuV+1lgPusGufrzG82hiGRO2VjD?= =?Windows-1252?Q?Mro3GB18XuxQKrwYKJRZ1BcRD3qHJHTEiomShgDLWnuy/jt7pUOQjnX8?= =?Windows-1252?Q?pCChD/VFoT4YoXoKrlbiZNGQC9eHn7maLKhi0TzC9JyezJNthLyik8AU?= =?Windows-1252?Q?qOqg8CbMu6bqIfyR8di4GSz9OaMorbzPd9Jkepp0OCcp2naJkjlOZHT/?= =?Windows-1252?Q?vAaAEllOrUCMScpJkYUstz0hDgA2mNfqo2hj2FcMhyiyGDQ/tP4joxFb?= =?Windows-1252?Q?4QICfpXBFE+HHI8bjt2gmETEoOEa8kic6dZJySZ/Ln0lHjJ1h0efU+J/?= =?Windows-1252?Q?bOZpFOupKdOX68DUiNIDQs04+qe1cLvlOJU1m0SwxPlgkxRL4DtvlDRm?= =?Windows-1252?Q?PUp9N0ahfH4h6jQy3H5t2yRSpUQ5zpTNV8VG3zmqBfoIVenxMY/hCvST?= =?Windows-1252?Q?lGnhqO97MGNbE0q6+15jsnu3v5o//LmuytHBmGh5iuyIc7qCWIoOgjcs?= =?Windows-1252?Q?guy/fvROAE4qLw=3D=3D?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DM4PR19MB59789C124D6D1ED66B9515EDD3422DM4PR19MB5978namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM4PR19MB5978.namprd19.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d54c515b-2aa0-4fb5-5076-08dc23f8c525 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Feb 2024 14:10:54.5688 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL1PR19MB5867 List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --_000_DM4PR19MB59789C124D6D1ED66B9515EDD3422DM4PR19MB5978namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Link is not only suggesting not to do DELETE - LIMIT but it is also suggest= ing to not to do UPDATE-LIMIT. Thanks, Sarwar ________________________________ From: David G. Johnston Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2024 9:15 PM To: M Sarwar Cc: Ron Johnson ; pgsql-admin@postgresql.org Subject: Re: Enhancement Request On Thursday, February 1, 2024, M Sarwar > wrote: You may collect the opinion from few others and make a decision on this. This feature has earned a place on the =93not worth doing=94 page so a deci= sion has been made. https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Not_Worth_Doing David J. --_000_DM4PR19MB59789C124D6D1ED66B9515EDD3422DM4PR19MB5978namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Link is not only suggesting not to do DELETE - LIMIT but it is also suggest= ing to not to do UPDATE-LIMIT. 
Thanks,
Sarwar

From: David G. Johnston <= ;david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2024 9:15 PM
To: M Sarwar <sarwarmd02@outlook.com>
Cc: Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com>; pgsql-admin@postgre= sql.org <pgsql-admin@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: Enhancement Request
 
On Thursday, February 1, 2024, M Sarwar <sarwarmd02@outlook.com> wrote:
 You may collect the opinion= from few others and make a decision on this.

This feature has earned a place on the =93not worth doing=94 page so a= decision has been made.

--_000_DM4PR19MB59789C124D6D1ED66B9515EDD3422DM4PR19MB5978namp_-- From ogautherot@gautherot.net Fri Feb 2 15:02:03 2024 Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVv3d-0028Qq-Lu for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 15:02:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVv3c-00DqfM-IW for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 15:02:20 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVv3b-00Dqb7-Ha for pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 15:02:20 +0000 Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVv3Y-004iZ7-Rb for pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 15:02:18 +0000 Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-55f9b96554aso344412a12.1 for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 07:02:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gautherot.net; s=google; t=1706886135; x=1707490935; darn=lists.postgresql.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=TdeMtJ92Xqyiy5HxeWJmWJ69A4t+wDDZBNnFGP8HCIE=; b=J7zfPCygCmqIFfnen+TlCYIoiBM8skoC6lzrrx5XSLMp/bYa10t/dW9uv5Ia1dgP6T g6joGP0odngk4WoON5LoU0BiMORuK6xH4+mw2cSn7bVkcp3SYcNgswB+22AIJ4uneEnv GaA2MhXcH84kl87p9owBlNMPVXO3hILXDiHHIyjD/NoVOq97xJw080tXo9EuBFuqwHuj AxGc5iycw5eNnmNv0Bpys3EKMIaK/DOAIW71Eep8f5ZW/sA5DOuBUDinXIAReHWNI5mh gnVJ4X9tR6YXAptcIYFsTNIZK5db1nOJmQ1OuPwBBoUGUfXT8yroglnDwFh5rIt1fJGL vBgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706886135; x=1707490935; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=TdeMtJ92Xqyiy5HxeWJmWJ69A4t+wDDZBNnFGP8HCIE=; b=Z9qZKEMTa9GqJBu4PwflL04L+nhuvSeXenkXQ7xIyQfFkQXnCiTABeUGnynUZfJJhm 1f9MPCwbreWT0WZEs1Tga+0pmtgY6DPdHAEhIr3cJzRircKuEh8dbpJFf5lq09SSXZek /qgFJ+sBOJVjMJnvlYXGjD/eSkEDTDSz2tL/7q0iHBHUsP1XSVvsZVaX4VARboeVBd3s oVadFODIkWX8Jd0lIV+6eXiR+qabksJJcRN7RCNqhwvz3u75EzI9MY0n4cjl5GUZZOOY 3QD4JN/Cu48yfAng8EeyjHzCr6JVgP9h7PBel0R1ZyjhE2/klO2i1bZYmOBXapeSX31/ /aog== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzlSZNB71NhbLlTb6ecgC5q+CkayXhCA96psFQtOBFvFjvn/wNG zm9UMvfC0pLOERCZIhmG+BoipaCF+4KNrv8sZ8dp927lrfrRiEkjFa4CqjuZMxCotOdSkDoPiWY G7uiWRUKmQDjwdk7G2KzUinSyZ/V7kU6zmC+N X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFbzJf9lwSUGc7duAm+qKvKI5YGussatSHsCHXQTGPNmu34SrH0osc9Fdtk6t/zKnofXe77NW+A1w8ZwkYODdg= X-Received: by 2002:a50:9fc7:0:b0:55f:fc94:2b63 with SMTP id c65-20020a509fc7000000b0055ffc942b63mr962655edf.0.1706886135218; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 07:02:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Olivier Gautherot Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2024 16:02:03 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Enhancement Request To: Ron Johnson Cc: Pgsql-admin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c320990610676557" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --000000000000c320990610676557 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable El vie, 2 feb 2024 14:54, Ron Johnson escribi=C3= =B3: > On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 3:50=E2=80=AFAM Olivier Gautherot > wrote: > >> >> >> El jue, 1 feb 2024 2:35, Ron Johnson escribi= =C3=B3: >> >>> >>> ... >>> >> >> Deleting large numbers of rows is a complex task with a lot of hidden >> issues (index management between other things). Adding a LIMIT paradigm >> will not simplify it in any way. >> > > Smaller "bites" are easier to manage than giant bites. > To some extent, yes. But when it comes to large quantities overall, you have to consider vacuum, and it's best to take the DB offline for that. It depends on your use case. > >> I remember doing it on tables with over 50 millions rows and had my shar= e >> of disaster recoveries. Partitions saved my life. >> > > You must have been doing something wrong. > The mistake was to hope for the best and it didn't happen: we didn't take the feeding process offline (over 1000 rows per minute) and, after 24 hour, the DB was still trying to recover. We finally took everything offline for 2 hours and it stabilized. The delete process involved chunks of 15 million rows at a time, worth 1 month of data - not a minor issue. > --000000000000c320990610676557 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


El vie, 2 feb 2024 14:54, Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com> esc= ribi=C3=B3:
On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 3:50=E2=80=AFAM Olivier Gautherot <ogautherot@gautherot.net> wrote:

El jue, 1 feb 2024 2:35, Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.c= om> escribi=C3=B3:

...

Deleting large numbers of rows is a complex task with a lot o= f hidden issues (index management between other things). Adding a LIMIT par= adigm will not simplify it in any way.

Smaller "bites" are easier to manage than giant bites.

To some extent, yes. But when it comes to large quantities overall, yo= u have to consider vacuum, and it's best to take the DB offline for tha= t. It depends on your use case.

=C2=A0
I remember d= oing it on tables with over 50 millions rows and had my share of disaster r= ecoveries. Partitions saved my life.

You must have been doing something wrong.

The mistake was to h= ope for the best and it didn't happen: we didn't take the feeding p= rocess offline (over 1000 rows per minute) and, after 24 hour, the DB was s= till trying to recover. We finally took everything offline for 2 hours and = it stabilized. The delete process involved chunks of 15 million rows at a t= ime, worth 1 month of data - not a minor issue.
--000000000000c320990610676557-- From ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com Fri Feb 2 17:15:42 2024 Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVx8v-002KBZ-OQ for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 17:15:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVx8u-00Ei47-TI for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 17:15:56 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVx8u-00Ei3y-E1 for pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 17:15:56 +0000 Received: from mail-oi1-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::22d]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rVx8s-004k1V-1S for pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 17:15:55 +0000 Received: by mail-oi1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3be48947186so1239597b6e.3 for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 09:15:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706894153; x=1707498953; darn=lists.postgresql.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=nrYRzmblkAkgV8DYEKzie7e8hOEFMfwKIqcMuLoaJUw=; b=dHpaVtSDA3mHcj8ab1wWeOgJukDi3wYgOFjCxLl43YqdUh9UAyBKrfwf2u/rDWmLV5 yfQnc7bJqUXva4mia4gWgyiT2Fpnoqb7yUIe0rEdn0HeVNoewzjTj2t253hxvuk+Da2b DnO9QBj37kLaoxqYZb9YpQ+lQVW4dGAsT6THfRloqHmTUapBAdUoUwUa+JMiRQOFiqKX /cl1FQtbDvS8Jya5gJgqpdCcbFYgvSLM0YVQV1C41XczoaflNL5e9hBhznc2XGhINRaT fqNLwRjn/QwlBNTqQWXNa/ZLUsE5NVsMxARPuh8BHi1gpB/sF/o/wHVOgJBWynYXMsdq fz9Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706894153; x=1707498953; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=nrYRzmblkAkgV8DYEKzie7e8hOEFMfwKIqcMuLoaJUw=; b=Cd3yowyVE+Q3jqER30naUmFh83YDrh4Sr3uBLmdptLHyjsBPPO+yHbjlywsinir5AS nuctzNXLZEqmAyJroOMx6uwAGvoTiDQqSo1jFv6e6RqZZPerwsFkpXmXF2jrAVX2lVQP TavOYl7jK0L0MZyB+0UjaGMrg9ERoOpARodqIXekca9Jm4wJSkgGGe7vKH0EWTxi5tA6 rQ6FMYE2ETPq9BFtgI8TptUpnn+GBbyh6cCKFFYXYaeAZZkBecWPZo5oHpdIhs56rjUO AmsafnYIg6O6Qc6hH+RTn+ra+EbRsBJMGcozC/Fqdo9anQSwuIj7p/UJqsGPTBey7Qyn 9STw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YykduLiMbU4npy+BX2iDIthhisAw94ZGh7bH0JlrlFu+HhBeis9 +9otsNL/PsCr0VS06e9LVwnApa4f9739JxJcI2g6y/FNp/yCfP6MOy30dnNh8N1+ts1n87q35gA zBrzxX+xt4oveZcponTyq1c67EP1X6zUh X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHjCjxIXNGfPk/P9HQaIgRsU/P4qX7FAu0RgzEmZMRz1nvZIRRBC9t/FprhU/b6iWjqm2FtkTUpM8k9ftuk/zA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:330a:b0:219:2219:29d7 with SMTP id x10-20020a056870330a00b00219221929d7mr332037oae.48.1706894153394; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 09:15:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ron Johnson Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2024 12:15:42 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Enhancement Request To: Olivier Gautherot Cc: Pgsql-admin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aeb59c06106943a6" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --000000000000aeb59c06106943a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 10:02=E2=80=AFAM Olivier Gautherot wrote: > > > El vie, 2 feb 2024 14:54, Ron Johnson escribi= =C3=B3: > >> On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 3:50=E2=80=AFAM Olivier Gautherot < >> ogautherot@gautherot.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> El jue, 1 feb 2024 2:35, Ron Johnson escribi= =C3=B3: >>> >>>> >>>> ... >>>> >>> >>> Deleting large numbers of rows is a complex task with a lot of hidden >>> issues (index management between other things). Adding a LIMIT paradigm >>> will not simplify it in any way. >>> >> >> Smaller "bites" are easier to manage than giant bites. >> > > To some extent, yes. But when it comes to large quantities overall, you > have to consider vacuum, > I set autovacuum=3Doff on the relevant table before purging, then vacuum-analyze before re-enabling autovacuum. > and it's best to take the DB offline for that. It depends on your use cas= e. > The objections seem to presume that DBAs are incompetent, don't test ahead of time, and can't learn from their mistakes. --000000000000aeb59c06106943a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 10:02=E2=80=AFAM O= livier Gautherot <ogautherot= @gautherot.net> wrote:


El vi= e, 2 feb 2024 14:54, Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com> escribi=C3=B3:
On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 3:50=E2=80=AFAM Olivier Gautherot <<= a href=3D"mailto:ogautherot@gautherot.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl= ank">ogautherot@gautherot.net> wrote:
<= br>
El jue, 1 feb 2024 2:35, Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail= .com> escribi=C3=B3:

...=

Deleting large numbers of rows is a comp= lex task with a lot of hidden issues (index management between other things= ). Adding a LIMIT paradigm will not simplify it in any way.

Smaller "bites" are easier to manage= than giant bites.
To some extent, yes. But when it comes to large q= uantities overall, you have to consider vacuum,

I set autovacuum=3Doff on the relevant table before purgi= ng, then vacuum-analyze before re-enabling autovacuum.
=C2=A0
and it's best to take the DB offline for that. It depends = on your use case.

The objection= s seem to presume that DBAs are incompetent, don't=C2=A0test ahead of t= ime, and=C2=A0can't learn from their mistakes.

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