Message-ID: <4676C60F.3060707@commandprompt.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:51:11 -0700
From: "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com>
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To: "Jonah H. Harris" <jonah.harris@gmail.com>
CC: Andreas Kostyrka <andreas@kostyrka.org>,
	David Tokmatchi <david.tokmatchi@gmail.com>,
	pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org, pgsql-admin@postgresql.org,
	pgsql-novice@postgresql.org, pgsql-general@postgresql.org,
	pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [PERFORM] Postgres VS Oracle
References: <c50dbb0b0706180855v4b781f13m6e54c50aa3ab1dee@mail.gmail.com>	
	<36e682920706180910y519bc6a5h11e0ba56f45009ec@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4676B7C7.6020801@kostyrka.org>	
	<36e682920706181002i495f3fc3s2d55472e36a91b63@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4676BE31.6040701@commandprompt.com>
	<36e682920706181038r21f88631w46960c28b42aeef8@mail.gmail.com>
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Jonah H. Harris wrote:
> On 6/18/07, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
>> Depends? How many times are you going to antagonize the people that ask?
> 
> As many times as necessary.  Funny how the anti-proprietary-database
> arguments can continue forever and no one brings up the traditional
> RTFM-like response of, "hey, this was already discussed in thread XXX,
> read that before posting again."

Yeah funny how you didn't do that ;) (of course neither did I).

> 
>> 1. It has *nothing* to do with anti-commercial. It is anti-proprietary
>> which is perfectly legitimate.
> 
> As long as closed-mindedness is legitimate, sure.

It isn't closed minded to consider anti-proprietary a bad thing. It is 
an opinion and a valid one. One that many have made part of their lives 
in a very pro-commercial and profitable manner.

> 
>> 2. Oracle, Microsoft, and IBM have a "lot" to fear in the sense of a
>> database like PostgreSQL. We can compete in 90-95% of cases where people
>> would traditionally purchase a proprietary system for many, many
>> thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of dollars.
> 
> They may well have a lot to fear, but that doesn't mean they do;
> anything statement in that area is pure assumption.

95% of life is assumption. Some of it based on experience, some of it 
based on pure conjecture, some based on all kinds of other things.

> 
> I'm in no way saying we can't compete, I'm just saying that the
> continued closed-mindedness and inside-the-box thinking only serves to
> perpetuate malcontent toward the proprietary vendors by turning
> personal experiences into sacred-mailing-list gospel.

It is amazing how completely misguided you are in this response. I 
haven't said anything closed minded. I only responded to your rather 
antagonistic response to a reasonably innocuous question of: "As a 
cynic, I might ask, what Oracle is fearing? "

It is a good question to ask, and a good question to discuss.

> 
> All of us have noticed the anti-MySQL bashing based on problems with
> MySQL 3.23... Berkus and others (including yourself, if I am correct),
> have corrected people on not making invalid comparisons against
> ancient versions.  I'm only doing the same where Oracle, IBM, and
> Microsoft are concerned.

I haven't seen any bashing going on yet. Shall we start with the closed 
mindedness and unfairness of per cpu license and support models?

Joshua D. Drake


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