Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by developer.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 368652E0042 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:57:38 -0300 (ADT) Received: from developer.postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 49523-04 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:57:32 -0300 (ADT) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.243]) by developer.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7323F2E0033 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:57:34 -0300 (ADT) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d30so607116and.33 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=FiE4WFe7fBUPoKUUvzcEtdMbLKrZsGwTNfETzu5LG5U=; b=JpoueerQ1X3VznLbutApuWnAM3kDKXXRBUHj4m/f+hF2Kzt9G3d5NvcrPmwlFuXy7/ WKa8xxt0vFL5BkiiR88GoX+QhUfZH9uavhb6dAu0OOOONEempEG7S+45JWWv+0ZIbd92 f2XMnDwu1dFR76ClmjonVe52SscEP/cBauKng= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=c+PUJzYfkEM30uziE1lMzI20Zz1aGMqxNIHuvB2QMmSw797YYuc1If9LQuYDXVRnWq SPInj8lHcZEEgITTCrBU6zEzX14gAQwpSIQIqQjftD2SDfMyJn7cA/6yTnzi2vf1Sw02 uNALIfbkvLm5MbiKfGrax87B9LaHcWnTdmdqY= Received: by 10.101.71.9 with SMTP id y9mr6085751ank.145.1213127853332; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.197.15 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8078a1730806101257m38fd1232nce7ae71870ee5de2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:57:32 -0700 From: "Medi Montaseri" To: "Scott Marlowe" Subject: Re: what happend to my database Cc: "Tom Lane" , "Steve Holdoway" , pgsql-admin@postgresql.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4739_4348631.1213127853298" References: <8078a1730805281837y1ed331bey4e7db16a63423cfa@mail.gmail.com> <20080529135235.d6fcad87.steve.holdoway@firetrust.com> <13918.1212029485@sss.pgh.pa.us> <8078a1730805282214l32d4833j50ccb6c5bb177c9a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200806/81 X-Sequence-Number: 29419 ------=_Part_4739_4348631.1213127853298 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Scott Marlowe wrote: > On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Medi Montaseri > wrote: > > Yes, this type of presumptuous behavior to wipe out a production database > > based on a few checks is too risky... > > > > Behavior one: > > First out-of-box time, pg_ctl does not find any database files, it tells > the > > user that "sorry I did not find any database to start....see initdb.... > > Result: we have a semi-unhappy user/admin that says... what is initdb > > > > Behavior two: > > In order to enhance the out-of-box experience, we have wiped out a > > production environment, leading to many unhappy staff and customers.... > > > > PG developers...I am not impressed at all... > > In defense of the pg developers, the behaviour you describe was > removed long ago BECAUSE of the issues you mention. > > The fact is that pg developers can't police every distro out there to > make sure they've removed such hinky behaviour from their startup > scripts. So, the persons to NOT be impressed with at all are the > folks who maintain your OS's postgresql packaging, not the pg > developers. stand corrected > > Course, you can always switch to MySQL, or Oracle, or MSSQL where > nothing like that ever happens. uh huh. Never...I rather stay and fix it...than run away to a different country Thanks ------=_Part_4739_4348631.1213127853298 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Medi Montaseri <montaseri@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, this type of presumptuous behavior to wipe out a production database
> based on a few checks is too risky...
>
> Behavior one:
> First out-of-box time, pg_ctl does not find any database files, it tells the
> user that "sorry I did not find any database to start....see initdb....
> Result: we have a semi-unhappy user/admin that says... what is initdb
>
> Behavior two:
> In order to enhance the out-of-box experience, we have wiped out a
> production environment, leading to many unhappy staff and customers....
>
> PG developers...I am not impressed at all...

In defense of the pg developers, the behaviour you describe was
removed long ago BECAUSE of the issues you mention.

The fact is that pg developers can't police every distro out there to
make sure they've removed such hinky behaviour from their startup
scripts.  So, the persons to NOT be impressed with at all are the
folks who maintain your OS's postgresql packaging, not the pg
developers.
 
stand corrected



Course, you can always switch to MySQL, or Oracle, or MSSQL where
nothing like that ever happens.  uh huh.

Never...I rather stay and fix it...than run away to a different country

Thanks

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