Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1vUf9f-003Ere-0W for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Sun, 14 Dec 2025 06:00:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1vUf9c-00CI47-0z for pgsql-admin@arkaria.postgresql.org; Sun, 14 Dec 2025 06:00:25 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1vUf9b-00CI3s-2O for pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org; Sun, 14 Dec 2025 06:00:24 +0000 Received: from mail-oo1-xc36.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::c36]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1vUf9a-000Zre-0g for pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org; Sun, 14 Dec 2025 06:00:23 +0000 Received: by mail-oo1-xc36.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-65b3843853bso1584885eaf.2 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 22:00:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765692021; x=1766296821; darn=lists.postgresql.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=q7SYiWHb/sBRY1q8Fz9wYwnU++fADUwjpli+asbA6JE=; b=fuvjUEVJrHKNhiDrivFapinVwycQQw2MdRKFyl/rloorTfM57kOdNxtd0Pc9piucnO h7b0eacJSrTNd69BTgGMliNYSeOs3oOBb3Cxx6wwk2//5oBIk1BnDwALxbdizQAtBg5K eSG6xT8Q4AJ866yIihbn2jIJFX1zvqtBAW6Z9QjC3vSmxtwjCp1YUtHSuchH6d7VRzmH U1tx6O2BBf5/h6i2W4tdLnwGSwzyIlE2dqDDXC7BhYJveaqBeSSBLMnU3GE814EPf3dl +U0stpvdw2tV6DLtHdKGShiW0qj7v+XD9eOs5DjPByA40K39IwBT0lpfDmokn/4/neLd pVUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765692021; x=1766296821; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=q7SYiWHb/sBRY1q8Fz9wYwnU++fADUwjpli+asbA6JE=; b=Kwgm4QGU2AGm7J1u+KpuBmZvIN+eo/k9gq/5DtaNjKINhJXnqsfjR5puVnudyCjg93 fjnCub015iLNISeihN4J+94jKpFjCR9k/i9W7j1FN6ZR8kKi+3QWhXJn15/nuUjrDCES qTyQxthJHFaJHhN6LWXVx1N2+oYrVhn+fjoMNmPXFFjgUb8SnG5Eqvc5GpgbPgwEgiuA YKNfbQX/JR+3NMyNMkbXY0lGCbxRKeai+feSJMaj5F5+axvFp19yYjrcZTeQa/TOBE0G 5citZn5uQRtOhqBOkNoM2KqAtMbNzjvRCreRY9OlMqvq0KlNAY3ZzpUDkbTmLkiZ7dt9 jbMQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw2ua9upTyF8XtAwtJTBUMNTROggNFGADnGcNPwiuEmYVwUYb0f fgfTBdw0xnu779jkBaIJEgAmyc2irCP+jCb8PAQIv0sWcCkHU2U9tR7ri+M7OIvPUqHZSeVIqwU Qtrb0+H7moT735TvBcJebdTPELL/0n9c= X-Gm-Gg: AY/fxX68a3wI4acvb/1+taFj62wRLe+NUc/OyGlrcZlHhTUoNVPpREF66zGjFqAjj4U ukKN4dzO1LeR0Yn2AnEqNNBAPYy98OMg+vZq/51vGj3LhgIbF0uwvBWoslQ2t+5RqpxuwcVr7WR fW7b64/VeO03bV0j3ihxW7KWBTWi0FEdQvNUG1Zr7syPFszV9en2v5PnJYVew/bCW6SjpsstzFC cDdC3oajaVroYQfJ9J+dDXj3ZqXpTn8+NfuXBIpZx2oGcRsTVrnTlIWvw87Mqg0RTiagw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFXtqTMLMFLVGqO77PseNIRlypBms1JIJkP+4IoiKmuXdXVl5z6Q735VL6FAwe92kO0TBuK7pJIOfyQuVkojzY= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:edc7:0:b0:659:9a49:9087 with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-65b452c4a22mr2878497eaf.82.1765692020746; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 22:00:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2046739.1758254802@sss.pgh.pa.us> <471a0d22-f769-450d-a084-74ece10915d5@netcologne.de> In-Reply-To: From: "David G. Johnston" Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2025 22:59:44 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2qHNDq-c39U06CF7Q2Y7gTXE1iTincfsWwrRuq3lunfJy9HS9nP4KUvi1w Message-ID: Subject: Re: pgping? To: Ron Johnson Cc: Pgsql-admin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000adee160645e33540" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --000000000000adee160645e33540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Dec 13, 2025 at 3:27=E2=80=AFPM Ron Johnson wrote: > On Sat, Dec 13, 2025 at 1:19=E2=80=AFPM David G. Johnston < > david.g.johnston@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Saturday, December 13, 2025, Ron Johnson >> wrote: >>> >>> pg_isready is "ncat -zv $host 5432" for systems which don't have ncat >>> installed. >>> >> >> Pretty sure this is also an incorrect, or at least incomplete statement. >> pg_isready uses the PostgreSQL wire protocol to make a better >> determination as to readiness than ncat does. People are just complaini= ng >> that it doesn=E2=80=99t go further than it does. They see =E2=80=9Cuser= =E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cdatabase=E2=80=9D >> and misinterpret why those options exist. >> > > We've had this discussion before: people see the --dbname and --username > options, then quite reasonably think "ah, those options must mean you can > test whether a specific database and/or role can connect; otherwise, why > the heck would you put them in the --help output?" > > Bottom line: the purpose of --dbname is to specify a database name; the > purpose of --username is to specify a username. Having them in the --hel= p > output *misleads the user*. > > Yes, here. https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/CANzqJaCSbqU3QUqMhfv5ivYww%3DJQN= wyYnKWnEJoO_onCiCrhSg%40mail.gmail.com#3c4b13e8cf1116697e7e7338047728c5 It's unfortunate that the default assumption about those options is incorrect and one needs to read the notes to understand their purpose. David J. --000000000000adee160645e33540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Dec 13, 2025 at 3:27=E2=80=AFPM Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com> wr= ote:
On Sat, Dec 13, 2025 at 1:19=E2=80=AFPM David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@g= mail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, December 13, 2025, Ron Johnso= n <ronljohn= sonjr@gmail.com> wrote:
pg_isready is "n= cat -zv $host 5432" for systems which don't have ncat installed.= =C2=A0

Pretty sure this i= s also an incorrect, or at least incomplete statement. =C2=A0pg_isready use= s the PostgreSQL wire protocol to make a better determination as to readine= ss than ncat does.=C2=A0 People are just complaining that it doesn=E2=80=99= t go further than it does.=C2=A0 They see =E2=80=9Cuser=E2=80=9D and =E2=80= =9Cdatabase=E2=80=9D and misinterpret why those options exist.

We've had this discussion before: people see = the --dbname and --username options, then quite reasonably think "ah, = those options must mean you can test whether a specific database and/or rol= e can connect; otherwise, why the heck would you put them in the --help out= put?"

Bottom line: the purpose of --dbname is= to specify a database name; the purpose of --username is to specify a user= name.=C2=A0 Having them in the --help output misleads the user.


Yes, here.<= /div>

It's un= fortunate that the default assumption about those options is incorrect and = one needs to read the=C2=A0notes to understand their purpose.

<= /div>
David J.


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