Subject: Re: Encryption in pg_dump
To: pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org
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From: Ron <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a91e4430-6e74-2980-b914-7a045d3636ad@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 02:17:54 -0500
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On 7/23/20 1:58 AM, Olivier Gautherot wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Le jeu. 23 juil. 2020 à 07:34, Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com 
> <mailto:theophilusx@gmail.com>> a écrit :
>
>
>     Paul Förster <paul.foerster@gmail.com
>     <mailto:paul.foerster@gmail.com>> writes:
>
>     > Hi Bruce,
>     >
>     >> On 22. Jul, 2020, at 20:55, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us
>     <mailto:bruce@momjian.us>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >> Does anyone know why we are getting so many requests for encrypting
>     >> dumps all of a sudden?
>     >
>     > probably because a) people don't read past posts and b) more and
>     more IT heads decide that *everything*, be it internal to the company
>     or not, has to be encrypted.
>     >
>
>     Yes, I think the IT heads issue is the primary driver - combined with
>     very poor understanding of information security at senior levels and a
>     huge growth of poor quality and 'snake oil salesmen' in the IT
>     security space
>     due to the amount of money ill informed senior managers are throwing at
>     what they think is a technical problem which usually is in fact a
>     business process problem.
>
>
> The root cause is probably that, if you can't separate sensitive 
> information, you must encrypt everything - hence the dump. It may be a 
> sign of bad design to start with, with data at rest not protected in the 
> first place. It may also be a sign of "encrypt everything to be safe" as a 
> false perception of security, increasing the attack surface instead of 
> reducing it. And we could carry on with this list.
>
> Put it on the account of GDPR, as compliance is not an easy job.
>

When Oracle, SQL Server and MySQL Enterprise all have Transparent Data 
Encryption, the expectation is that all databases should have TDE.

Auditors and IT upper management don't really understand the limitations of 
TDE, but that does not matter.  The magic word *Encryption* is in there, and 
that means they like it

Adding hooks into libgpgme from pg_dump and pg_restore (needed for 
--format=directory) would be *Very Helpful*.

-- 
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.

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    On 7/23/20 1:58 AM, Olivier Gautherot wrote:<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJ7S9TW2j7Dk3k62_b_oZg9X=7jKMyLuebcBgtj0aWjSjzGJTw@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="auto">
        <div>Hi all,<br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le jeu. 23 juil. 2020 à
              07:34, Tim Cross &lt;<a
                href="mailto:theophilusx@gmail.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true">theophilusx@gmail.com</a>&gt; a
              écrit :<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
              Paul Förster &lt;<a href="mailto:paul.foerster@gmail.com"
                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">paul.foerster@gmail.com</a>&gt;
              writes:<br>
              <br>
              &gt; Hi Bruce,<br>
              &gt;<br>
              &gt;&gt; On 22. Jul, 2020, at 20:55, Bruce Momjian &lt;<a
                href="mailto:bruce@momjian.us" target="_blank"
                rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">bruce@momjian.us</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
              &gt;&gt; <br>
              &gt;&gt; Does anyone know why we are getting so many
              requests for encrypting<br>
              &gt;&gt; dumps all of a sudden?<br>
              &gt;<br>
              &gt; probably because a) people don't read past posts and
              b) more and more IT heads decide that *everything*, be it
              internal to the company or not, has to be encrypted.<br>
              &gt;<br>
              <br>
              Yes, I think the IT heads issue is the primary driver -
              combined with<br>
              very poor understanding of information security at senior
              levels and a<br>
              huge growth of poor quality and 'snake oil salesmen' in
              the IT security space<br>
              due to the amount of money ill informed senior managers
              are throwing at<br>
              what they think is a technical problem which usually is in
              fact a<br>
              business process problem. <br>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">The root cause is probably that, if you can't
          separate sensitive information, you must encrypt everything -
          hence the dump. It may be a sign of bad design to start with,
          with data at rest not protected in the first place. It may
          also be a sign of "encrypt everything to be safe" as a false
          perception of security, increasing the attack surface instead
          of reducing it. And we could carry on with this list.</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">Put it on the account of GDPR, as compliance is
          not an easy job.</div>
        <div dir="auto">
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    When Oracle, SQL Server and MySQL Enterprise all have Transparent
    Data Encryption, the expectation is that all databases should have
    TDE.<br>
    <br>
    Auditors and IT upper management don't really understand the
    limitations of TDE, but that does not matter.  The magic word <b>Encryption</b>
    is in there, and that means they like it<br>
    <br>
    Adding hooks into libgpgme from pg_dump and pg_restore (needed for
    --format=directory) would be <b>Very Helpful</b>.<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.</div>
  </body>
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