Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by developer.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA89B2E0031 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:49:21 -0300 (ADT) Received: from developer.postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 41143-01 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:49:16 -0300 (ADT) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from qb-out-0506.google.com (qb-out-0506.google.com [72.14.204.232]) by developer.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85DC52E0033 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:49:18 -0300 (ADT) Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f30so1007813qba.7 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:49:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=o/2evmwK+SMvV+YV9jkeIR5pRHHgIoq7lbjKf7eAVS0=; b=uUhhlNLHrLbDi7bZ+XihnGGnATc4XPs0iPx6F88DMKnghdULZYAtICaVDGgNrysLdv Y9OqGMKgzkie5ZHatieSz6xOQ4tTX5A8MRSl3+5XI47bvpek/NdJRZlFTP0BOiaUjnjW lcY7ntmITLsyo8L+6lAbtaoNG4dGESB55gksw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=lz0Gs/EM2iANXKALMXQ4o0XFMrxAvq4ohDE8Vg1ArwPUvWrgFV/anSBMO62YT5pvcE ACRKdT0nJnztqBeLeg1JmvS6y/HnU0pLPTbHybxv1YUaVtxOh/lXo/wBCNm6zAnVaJHc y4gZx53eQ9+0fUJkLQfY++L+lhJwFa1nw4NfI= Received: by 10.115.14.1 with SMTP id r1mr5493501wai.206.1213127356861; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.130.17 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 13:49:16 -0600 From: "Scott Marlowe" To: "Medi Montaseri" Subject: Re: what happend to my database Cc: "Tom Lane" , "Steve Holdoway" , pgsql-admin@postgresql.org In-Reply-To: <8078a1730805282214l32d4833j50ccb6c5bb177c9a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8078a1730805281837y1ed331bey4e7db16a63423cfa@mail.gmail.com> <20080529135235.d6fcad87.steve.holdoway@firetrust.com> <13918.1212029485@sss.pgh.pa.us> <8078a1730805282214l32d4833j50ccb6c5bb177c9a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200806/80 X-Sequence-Number: 29418 On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Medi Montaseri wrote: > Yes, this type of presumptuous behavior to wipe out a production database > based on a few checks is too risky... > > Behavior one: > First out-of-box time, pg_ctl does not find any database files, it tells the > user that "sorry I did not find any database to start....see initdb.... > Result: we have a semi-unhappy user/admin that says... what is initdb > > Behavior two: > In order to enhance the out-of-box experience, we have wiped out a > production environment, leading to many unhappy staff and customers.... > > PG developers...I am not impressed at all... In defense of the pg developers, the behaviour you describe was removed long ago BECAUSE of the issues you mention. The fact is that pg developers can't police every distro out there to make sure they've removed such hinky behaviour from their startup scripts. So, the persons to NOT be impressed with at all are the folks who maintain your OS's postgresql packaging, not the pg developers. Course, you can always switch to MySQL, or Oracle, or MSSQL where nothing like that ever happens. uh huh.