Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeGTz-006IRN-Lx for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 14:59:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeGTy-002qOz-5z for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 14:59:45 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeGTx-002qJI-T2 for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 14:59:45 +0000 Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeGTs-003gxt-QZ for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 14:59:45 +0000 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C59155C00FC; Thu, 7 Sep 2023 10:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 07 Sep 2023 10:59:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aklaver.com; h= cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t= 1694098779; x=1694185179; bh=13iKAOjvr0Wd3Yy4HyI+CheNV6dwFuhcA+2 +5NDpyQI=; b=p0Zm4Y8/zuikEv8Z6oMVlZixwtjggTGeb80Bd4zSXMBpSLXGb+o 6D4k27psMSk374xUchIWeA4Y3aWY+uFrZR9slsVId3N328woPxLcJaafughVgoQ6 R0n8y+4PqulhKR2oimLlUBlquLn8NHLa5PK/J4gJoUQXSapi8eX3aXw/xFQTNwBH d+LJMr3A4H/c/t5GdYH4zXaUWHqy0whQZj2Kl/sCbjWnLrBjq/xUBn0hAhiWwGt2 veb5WTr78KAnaM3OqlHRSGf0sHXNRwHgt1AHWjX/fVkKK5gXkav1PxUVBO//ej2H EmGbiXBuDOKNIUfVgUHwTECpB8IrEpVjScQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t= 1694098779; x=1694185179; bh=13iKAOjvr0Wd3Yy4HyI+CheNV6dwFuhcA+2 +5NDpyQI=; b=kyAWY3NBdKdZGiGeFCzuKkiqfIlA0mqdoo5hsmOJVd0ZHEJlKHI Zs8SPDZuNCinGWFcLTLUAwqh/wNbkLRiHbi/6IYLlRIRRJHgRr8Q7SgaoAlNQ83D h2f8A7rjI1CKx3ew/x+yTuqatXScNk7cTAz1uePRGq1CNE5H8PjGcNtFtt+0mk3P p6bAKtkUaFPiCvh2PdifNv4e4LRsjVBZyRX7f8N+YStvWmlV0Ne5BfPs9VbwRBf7 0EDDNYBvsQV3mKA+ep91hgORLoNBRSU2H+bW/05fKtsn3Vfu+UdoefnDZLAOGLEm D6Yyus4JbVUhbmk0i3vEz3ZebVjdRjkRYSA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedviedrudehhedgkeefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepkfffgggfuffvvehfhfgjtgfgsehtkeertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpeetughr ihgrnhcumfhlrghvvghruceorggurhhirghnrdhklhgrvhgvrhesrghklhgrvhgvrhdrtg homheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepvdegvedtjedvheekieejvddukeejjedtkeetgffh geelkeekgfelieelgeegveeknecuffhomhgrihhnpehsthgrthgvrdhorhdruhhsnecuve hluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheprggurhhirghn rdhklhgrvhgvrhesrghklhgrvhgvrhdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i76984098:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 7 Sep 2023 10:59:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0ee575ae-9e51-b547-20f9-23507356f1b3@aklaver.com> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 07:59:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.0 Subject: Re: Birmingham City Council chose Oracle, went broke because of it ;) Content-Language: en-US To: Chris Travers , Benjamin Scherrey Cc: Dave Page , Magnus Hagander , Justin Clift , PostgreSQL Advocacy References: From: Adrian Klaver In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk On 9/7/23 02:49, Chris Travers wrote: > An important lesson here is to always sit down with a client and > understand their needs before selling an ERP....... Unless you have a legal department that will run the customer into the ground with litigation. In a somewhat related case: https://www.doj.state.or.us/media-home/news-media-releases/oregon-oracle-reach-settlement-worth-more-than-100-million-in-it-modernization-and-other-benefits/ Where Oracle ended settling by paying ~$35 million in cash and ~$60 million in credits for a failed project with the state of Oregon that they collected $240 million for. -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com