Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRdt5-000396-0j for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 14:31:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRdt3-0000IN-NT for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 14:31:05 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRdt3-0000IF-GB for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 14:31:05 +0000 Received: from meldrar.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::31]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRdt1-0002sq-EG for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 14:31:05 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=postgresql.org; s=20171124; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=TVS1JfXxqovxWvvaWoL7unCOF2p0snFDcv43uY0cYeM=; b=FhLuGeTt4x9rimLmUoyYdkqaiP H2nHhDCeAvDJf5T2grp3wlnAmLQK4VPIFcrriHeftHpG6qAO8WlU9+qYsUrDkhSnmJwDuZDnXoTct Pczl46l6XrETZqnlMsnZCu7vMT6czvQ3m9tpqBxfH4kGLELuHpYDrMfs9i5nF4xk2tdeZrlsl40gV vqC5c0bhL6tw2XrTKOFlOJoqfrCUWcxm8/Vix+cBYNyw+sQQxKuXyjj0bhDIrFCdwq8Ddvu0dYYqX P6xTX+UtU9IIg1mQkIJEfG+taeUxBRfJq5komDuQ3CbhMJMf0f0tPWsJSWPbOJGTDiyHVvxGAk0Nu e2n7ST2Q==; Received: from [2600:8807:c240:dd00:152c:4c9b:4453:86bf] (helo=Ph33r-Retina.local) by meldrar.postgresql.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRdsy-0000U7-Jm; Fri, 17 May 2019 14:31:03 +0000 Subject: Re: PostgreSQL 12: Feature Highlights To: Bruce Momjian , Evan Macbeth Cc: Peter Geoghegan , PostgreSQL Advocacy References: <20190516182628.kbkiajfnlooocgyg@momjian.us> <20190516190806.GA14121@alvherre.pgsql> <20190517141930.735jidirzne2nlnx@momjian.us> From: "Jonathan S. Katz" Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jkatz@postgresql.org; keydata= mQINBFtShwABEAC7PNHDUOTYuifpUCk23KqfxdQQkn4nkoxOXRK0+rAj36FiwqGB4TJFuOVZ sDFAEiSlC8Jt4y5Cs7B5tetT8JNd2cs6zp/udMJJDz9d65O9PDpdlMgAmIiTzpLlSdx8FG56 DTksaDv1d8j3cTJPSE4/fWSxqzA7o3Y9UuL7atZPrzfImgpRKs0of7elIHwOa8GucjyhYqcR h60wFBJc2KXqQdDYRTZy43DSnY/0VNc0omiH355fustvpm+m5HjD3w7qZyfN3fpKJpnX1LCF f3MnPHaDGITIYGRCBXvf0UqUtD6OEVWPv2C2gyqWMIpWmZTOgDufltKyIByKBoS9x0PlFkij 04X3KODCngt+N8Ssc9OICc6QSxhjoP48PYPdmiTmkrGuf0LX084wj1xeo1NX7XxZK39F6dTJ DhsIiW0sNS0xMxQHLHG9VLbPjx3SANQBh6BuryPz5ZupW9/TIDmkvprtU/oXfKgtfYm3fxmk EctxbWrEPsFTFPyuMqQu6l+xyQv0s1VLZfjNWaua6H1/gGoIt6kRnn5qMXDVVpijuWkHbv7G ngaQMd258UrrOEHnnjzhQ7jxMWV9D+emxbAtlIxnYvCWlV4IwAQhEHfvudqYaIY3hNWrvQ6H GB2KXoTZYN9g5djm14/5nj1IU5zOcovkjJnKhoo9iStnpFF2cwARAQABtCdKb25hdGhhbiBT LiBLYXR6IDxqa2F0ekBwb3N0Z3Jlc3FsLm9yZz6JAlQEEwEIAD4CGwMFCQeGH4AFCwkIBwIG FQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQT6hLaVryv3miBkP/HxBJxynxxlJwUCW1KJJQAKCRDxBJxy nxxlJwjrD/kBgqsW4QpNpTFw7ifRokZV08CCX4huPBJQ91rrv+UEWlEcotFBHVkYyHnpzARl tcZxhJ9CbFxjniH9cOTty5T/O1yolbOHtZSW8Z8aWV6BVEbjMb+BFxSSLm7RnvJdzQbGCZq2 ZZvfVpB6z3EHYph4KDdVKvMFjoLskxmdS1DE0tE3zTxvoQsi24Q+HOS07kUjs6fsu/WICMfz mgO++AWG9Y0CvN0mm4TkujESzyKM9E5irD+leEMIcddl51Aa2c/VMfBXQbRmpHIgUFTmuHQD CnQih+9i3OJAksDg66SP8a7yiXv5mwvyDi1EfTGVKYR2j+pwyjwnC3oIbvDMmB3uTn2JIjnT iZKPVtAcAylXjubFltihQgNyuShdP4W+kBwZizhUFqUVL8Anx+KoytYmJPfMRFLGuK4obXKq a2ZS3k9KB+H+isOx2nFJOsc7V360Zp1DVaNmuiK10TT6QndShSPaqkJqFtCb6r92rZ9sZM/L 3vtCI4Rrl3Pt1MgtENXupS8gZpJnAYS0j5A1PAZ09r6ANoaeMHspF+5J5fOHeEvqphXr36mm a83Vl1t4orPb0+QmmijmlpseDU63M88Aw5p3c4qj7t8Qr2EZ5zrn7/sFn5wOfbs8Nymxafif QCnlV2vg9p0m7vSk/yLJ4PFZvs52FgqAGRCdRn0s2EC99bkCDQRbUocAARAAv8ho/toQ9DG3 j4f9h9n1aRHr2FlviN2Utpy6L8+dfDggO0geilmkGQOolZ2E60gGfye/kUtF9W3NByO4hxDR 9u6qbOXcdqnuA+cc68EfqlWFJrVtYFxt0h4ElWYOYnIezKthriWch/FY70FGrxs3z8UHOHq5 0wBW433eTvZm90WixBiXEt2v1DgW4Vr3ymfO7Aap/IYyPuE4JzgudAuAl0HKPyNEHWHG1dAb jX1RiCw9gknIDWQOF0B4UAaJctWGVcnZ3A2ULwNGMa1P9ZJlBWf1vcj01aiHMU0yQ7JjJiSp vfm9eM0uSLwRdDrJjyl5ZZqVumjdv2SMNQ8GvYRbEMys3GGDSt9zXgfCSUnPnJfYxjzBHRI6 x44Wfsx8S6hWxepOogCJJ/g67Bk9mY8YV4klWIXDJVOL5jnBC09DbsZG81JaE2QxB8Y7W36Z Mroi9XMxg3s805hQAQUvdG/poU8hN8BWdrnTm/+4eQQp7gDY1ePDmGM6bJC+OHOSnFtR/f+7 0zpKJ10cc7cBygGnl1yR3KjhFyAWUFvP4ZGziKCcpMwXZfe9PGuyA/YOubMphxIn3YsK2wrd faKZYX2GMZCZhMMcvx9IpQrxIJgU+VlwXu/O+Lk10VIPcxPJJwmpdI6HzcS8ZgG6IMcC444X XTuLaP8j2mgcMvYak3ScCykAEQEAAYkCPAQYAQgAJhYhBPqEtpWvK/eaIGQ/8fEEnHKfHGUn BQJbUocAAhsMBQkHhh+AAAoJEPEEnHKfHGUnReMP/RA2UhGQj+G4uBshkRLjpRysabdPqgQB dEBk6wYbio88Wg/2/hgY7UzmDDEwX3sZfQDcrI6+vIobI8uqstZID+WgAAa1JLfChMyVQnSy 0zfWMOABXscc5tGuvFRZvJklTissMFjXUwaREEKp4ZikTvJ/62MCjSdtrUhnPLvoTsHTKRKD ichE+b5A54alwsubTijw12O6N22r5IjZiiSZV0u7dsShyKw+7wCSax9fuBoE43NMYf+dnjMK nerAQYUcZWYMnk+EC8RaqYAxv6XZ2tKx1AkGGktwkQIBwrz9IlDSvJ3LWJ2UIIuLRTdngNgg GIL4zzuUa2F56FqskQIuYMaNETk6LYfalBDQ6TVLAcgCPQxp4k4i/PRsZ3lZ2ZhRHRYciOvm kp+I6EfHwllQpYrWs1thluBGqlJSVJgKl0IOFvKLsQ6KKfqzAwh6FxrO5qajp4viNIgtWoFw O5Bp0jgFTbH2OrMWIRfUdUCH1Djbuo65svhNj7FNsQVYzHDI+Nd1I/LOBoPc3UorRMF2M4JV kUR7skOHWUbPTSNUr7qc14NSMY3PKjGeVGAsBVHBPvmRx/Ss2tW/TpJWpxg4pmquFQSXuaYh Yf4FN8Sxy320pcr+FqN8AhZkYJcNY82OTtR5VEKRC/mYcyq61qXIKqngydn79bJjGxHipxyF FmEC Message-ID: <3e64a194-b39d-8a7b-7133-9691caaf3936@postgresql.org> Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 10:30:58 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190517141930.735jidirzne2nlnx@momjian.us> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5wu7b5VBFZHvIY9J4jOyrHOeKNXWVIFEO" X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2600:8807:c240:dd00:152c:4c9b:4453:86bf (failed) List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Precedence: bulk This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --5wu7b5VBFZHvIY9J4jOyrHOeKNXWVIFEO Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="mEg7G6DcPMqeHRVU6w00zTzqy2vqskN6Q"; protected-headers="v1" From: "Jonathan S. Katz" To: Bruce Momjian , Evan Macbeth Cc: Peter Geoghegan , PostgreSQL Advocacy Message-ID: <3e64a194-b39d-8a7b-7133-9691caaf3936@postgresql.org> Subject: Re: PostgreSQL 12: Feature Highlights References: <20190516182628.kbkiajfnlooocgyg@momjian.us> <20190516190806.GA14121@alvherre.pgsql> <20190517141930.735jidirzne2nlnx@momjian.us> In-Reply-To: <20190517141930.735jidirzne2nlnx@momjian.us> --mEg7G6DcPMqeHRVU6w00zTzqy2vqskN6Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5/17/19 10:19 AM, Bruce Momjian wrote: > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 08:14:33AM -0400, Evan Macbeth wrote: >> Long time lurker, first time poster. :)=C2=A0 >> >> >> 80% - 90% of the items listed in the release notes aren't interest= ing >> to users, but *which* 80% - 90% it is varies. The release notes do= n't >> have to function as a press release, because we'll have an actual >> press release instead. >> -- >> Peter Geoghegan >> >> >> I think Peter's point here is really important. I read the release not= es and >> the press releases, both, from a very different perspective than other= s, but I >> find both very valuable. The release notes benefit from completeness a= nd >> detail, in my observer's opinion. >=20 > As I just stated, if the press release was exhaustive, we could have th= e > release notes be more detailed, but this is not the case. I don't thin= k > we want to get into a case where the items listed on the preess release= > get a different level of detail from the items not listed. To step back, it's important to understand the intended goals of the press release. I view the primary goal of the press release for a major version to be a springboard to further dive into what is in the release. It helps to give some global context to new features / changes and is an effective "getting started" point. It needs just enough details for people to be interested, and if they want more info, they can go to the release notes + docs. The release notes then can provide additional details on what said features (effectively a readable "diff" between versions) are, and, if needed, the documentation can provide even greater details. (The "diff" point is important: multiple times in recent weeks I've had to refer back to the PG10 notes to highlight how the behavior for set returning functions changed in the SELECT lists. So having that there was certainly helpful.) In my more heavy practitioner days, I needed both to help analyze and make decisions on say, when to upgrade to a major version, or Bringing it full circle, I view the primary goal of the Beta 1 press release to be a springboard to _testing_ the release: we need people to test to ensure the GA release is as stable as possible. It should be a bit more exhaustive than the final GA press release - ideally I want people to think of uses cases they can test the new features in -- but sure, it should not be too much more exhaustive. Thanks, Jonathan --mEg7G6DcPMqeHRVU6w00zTzqy2vqskN6Q-- --5wu7b5VBFZHvIY9J4jOyrHOeKNXWVIFEO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE+oS2la8r95ogZD/x8QSccp8cZScFAlzexaIACgkQ8QSccp8c ZSdVyA/7BdiGHk7ySx+IT3lI+nPlO9y2NpMger4zOhmk5bnGSyH1Duqx/GtHU7/J 9TO37zKKYsiaRL1Yx3rYJQFFdq5Y1Vfwl8ozKVvb9LCj89FSUV3c1n9RCv0MOeFm 7AXDj/fYryV39V/IAOGZVYt2do57j0JYudYMKALPua+dd0u+mQ/Lf6tHdHscUSlg iSt5Vgik7bRYZV4P2tlO9kLEtndL1T84wr7DCRW+Mcjxupdunqm6Nr8sXW8tQXzG soPphT2hzfV69JtiRJwsT0BVq5n3pZX7sUiRER6/yoaiQMsDF+Eix5tdQpnVTeee fj4554MHntPFYAYlYX67thFBcV+qHN+Vdgx4477zhoa454vW8p3iZEPELNth6L/O PD5opFFhEaB7ajDF/CSZcjPiqtq5Xg+tdqmuQIEpM/u0npdzXx2cjXNLnKnq/VAK m4bpwctXffPGg8VGR6AsV60sbLg/u0NcALz32HWVWbVfIVpwY/XdQlDiKTp5zvBx somHCU2PwEs3l/xtc4YE4hymcDMKOwxaGlyYxdc5wM218lctdToxALZM5PULkicQ tXbJodVF2kagUOANDROtq+oObF0vnat/kFWlos6Qdl+gWYeHfydHZkKTFxN7SRzs H+9l+is/Yj3dJxS17Cg0vye4ZHmDGzvmh90yEkHXBhU8oqfmkhs= =41m6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5wu7b5VBFZHvIY9J4jOyrHOeKNXWVIFEO--