Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeAjA-005z4D-LW for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 08:51:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeAj8-00H6gI-Vx for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 08:51:02 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeAj8-00H6fZ-F6 for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 08:51:02 +0000 Received: from mail-il1-x130.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::130]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeAj2-003DgJ-9c for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 08:51:00 +0000 Received: by mail-il1-x130.google.com with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-34f2cb006f9so2693885ab.0 for ; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 01:50:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proteus-tech.com; s=google; t=1694076655; x=1694681455; darn=lists.postgresql.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=xV9aOj8x0Hu3KQ2FS79YXBZl3d1dPKb2Jar27awA4gM=; b=xQAJETfxP8tgCcQ9JaJ/k+IPCRNgLOFbQDGNDkYI41+NG0dA+lcN692me8GAHEg+UZ 2y2/mMYK4DIst1lw51AcULb+le+edBD2M7gJwVvfeewYpTUB8kQgCabRD2vJdQ4mSuQY I6R9pyyeFMETEemcUphlNJ2mOj7/c3fu+9Ct75IX7IoxZUPCNW1WO9OK8Mo1KekROfPe ONW3W7rsZ7I8jSzI44ni2g4v5nWXTk++NQcFgpm45zZByP3MzVDGncl0o/iYg0p7migG tXgSgOiNIohkJ/zp9mnAnl3e5HG99voGtRG0B40p70XFuJlBfq9CBdx6kcCGI+drwdPo 3aJg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1694076655; x=1694681455; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=xV9aOj8x0Hu3KQ2FS79YXBZl3d1dPKb2Jar27awA4gM=; b=j6UVHyGWio7nylMmtqSDxps4aJisL4y1CKr59xVMDsjp3LoWRSsiPsEGwEJsXIFz/N MGH7T5rNjgCfuQl4ntS2qXFVyvmBx6OQ7JB5Cfx7LRewBsjOjmXlWvb2VXSpAifKcCRw R7QopaDE+b/+CBz+HmqrPu5RCNKl5hwTd7fkXW1En/idHfjvGZVEmyVTEdAbnX/2c8LB ln14dMp3NxDcI/Z4eZUf3a3iblcJXWG2H54cmZutEyM8CEQY4l0Hl1mtocVXJZq1aGH+ YELnhr2Ki7CTX86QswEZARzX3/AObq6waIvRWRi5J9IFYk0DSkz2eib7OmtPSACsNWI0 ElwQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YznM3LgqyzFcQndjvlaJmOCsaU+OsCJtHCkKUDHPb0aYR6yDHvL +CwcJH1NzuigRoNEvzcGy6512To/f7uBp6vCiwVovw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGGaoxk5N1gXgBt4sgxcISYbKx+ETixKqQwYD2156o9WFK24WIxYeKOs1sA3yHBP5TJr7xhXsoT94ubsmoFaEQ= X-Received: by 2002:a92:dc4e:0:b0:349:7832:5cd with SMTP id x14-20020a92dc4e000000b00349783205cdmr19604354ilq.1.1694076655377; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 01:50:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Benjamin Scherrey Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 16:50:44 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Birmingham City Council chose Oracle, went broke because of it ;) To: Dave Page Cc: Magnus Hagander , Justin Clift , PostgreSQL Advocacy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000443cbf0604c0f583" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --000000000000443cbf0604c0f583 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well a) the costs of the system (still undelivered) is 4x the initial contract ; and b) they've determined that the ERP was incapable of performing the functions of the contract because it orientation for manufacturing rather than HR. So not even Oracle has a competing product! On Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 4:28 PM Dave Page wrote: > > > On Thu, 7 Sept 2023 at 09:23, Magnus Hagander wrote= : > >> On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 1:49=E2=80=AFAM Justin Clift >> wrote: >> > >> > Heh Heh Heh. This is pretty funny: >> > >> > >> https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/ >> > >> > "Birmingham City Council, the largest local authority in Europe, ha= s >> > declared itself in financial distress after troubled Oracle projec= t >> > costs ballooned from =C2=A320 million to around =C2=A3100 million = ($125.5 >> > million)." >> > >> > Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choose P= G >> > + a decent vendor instead? :) >> >> In fairness, that project is about Oracle Fusion, not the database. So >> PG doesn't have a competing product. There are opensource ERP products >> out there, but I'm not sure they're advanced enough to handle >> something like that... >> > > Indeed. It also only amounts for a fraction of the council's liabilities. > The vast majority is from an equal pay judgement against them, which iirc= , > totals a couple of billion pounds (of which they've paid off over half in > the last decade I believe). > > So, yeah, the Oracle thing is a massive screw up. But it's not what cause= d > the majority of their problems. > > -- > Dave Page > pgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.org > PostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org > EDB: https://www.enterprisedb.com > > PGDay UK 2023, September 12, London: https://2023.pgday.uk > > > --000000000000443cbf0604c0f583 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well a) the costs of the system (still undelivered) is 4x= the initial contract ; and b) they've determined that the ERP was inca= pable of performing the functions of the contract because it orientation fo= r manufacturing rather than HR. So not even Oracle has a competing product!= =C2=A0

On Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 4:28 PM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:


On Thu, 7 Sept 2023 at 09:23= , Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 1:49=E2=80=AFAM Justin Clift <justin@= postgresql.org> wrote:
>
> Heh Heh Heh.=C2=A0 This is pretty funny:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 h= ttps://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/ >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Birmingham City Council, the largest local authorit= y in Europe, has
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0declared itself in financial distress after trouble= d Oracle project
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0costs ballooned from =C2=A320 million to around =C2= =A3100 million ($125.5
> million)."
>
> Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choo= se PG
> + a decent vendor instead? :)

In fairness, that project is about Oracle Fusion, not the database. So
PG doesn't have a competing product. There are opensource ERP products<= br> out there, but I'm not sure they're advanced enough to handle
something like that...

Indeed. It also = only amounts for a fraction of the council's liabilities. The vast majo= rity is from an equal pay judgement against them, which iirc, totals a coup= le of billion pounds (of which they've paid off over half in the last d= ecade I believe).

So, yeah, the Oracle thing is a = massive screw up. But it's not what caused the majority of their proble= ms.
=C2=A0
-- <= /span>
--000000000000443cbf0604c0f583--