Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1q56MR-0000Hc-FV for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Jun 2023 15:06:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1q56MQ-0008Pv-2h for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Jun 2023 15:06:38 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1q56MP-0008Pb-Io for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Jun 2023 15:06:37 +0000 Received: from mail-oo1-xc2d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2d]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1q56MM-003Gxg-L4 for pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org; Fri, 02 Jun 2023 15:06:36 +0000 Received: by mail-oo1-xc2d.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-557d4a08bbaso1358457eaf.2 for ; Fri, 02 Jun 2023 08:06:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lelarge-info.20221208.gappssmtp.com; s=20221208; t=1685718394; x=1688310394; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=frH/gOePjOmu4i6631wO9o4Sb/btaARwY9tZM09zj5g=; b=ZveiMCkzguieSg60AoFZ+7oGpTEr/fgjEyoBGk7uzBE6wh8Ou6AfPjWV3sT8IK/AEO xpG7maNsSeblr/dvfrL4LmOb6utUxJKZjP6Y/mPAslj95L2O9xMW8+HuUIbHE2AVIvRB aGLAIA/39KIzNMD02pVPiOw0U8g5OWEM7xS+UtzsESyBMS5GGcEMPOScVCKOKefWCVWz ZbozeG2fiLMHj0Sf/kyW9BMAqDRIi2e5NN5JecyDwm6ZakjStmMIK3HrfpkDoZSoptnm 5G4hpq9lTZTSpcd56QtVpOsTsyyIf3R1HIIkU8UZyoSCpjFy9IpJTzeJCpI3HFZlnE4b aF4g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1685718394; x=1688310394; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=frH/gOePjOmu4i6631wO9o4Sb/btaARwY9tZM09zj5g=; b=iMFdvhGuvUeUNfoCvGDSRuGCGQX5Ow3MoRtnPgJWKmi3QjzEXnE6AUMNkjxvGmzPSR eN2z/0G66snqewtB3pY2creBau515UIBRc9IteXJviwWJoSGPk0KqDA9E/RKNDBYPOtx GbkVAt9/7/KLuCGs4k8sQtNaTMOjLgS50KEXVQ7srHUKCURw/Z45YtVIzM1WmaEL9KO3 S2JJKlJTn+7wQefqgq5+hG4xoEyqCoDZV8qfnPqHbnra46pUgWIPnz+7ZgWdMuMQM8Tw sIhN21y+Hgr4Zn14isoMljiezlt3sQlE6+0w1Jz9m3NW8S/SCasNdVECxofqjuU/2eGv KaAw== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDwfzHz5IiRTHjHNtGGG3LadX7N1fiD/SqvWI7l+P0sP88eBvccX DJUAhlZaMzyxD9bWtWC1pqYItg+K1H43x3NpOjhJPhCWZZFQFv3k X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ5RRaOsiNOy3a9LduoVgUL++jTnUnN14Q8bVwHstTcudgEWeyVQB1+xH3qEZpbDYQRrrsRc5sx+FfaCkDH0Y6Y= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:e493:b0:19f:4778:c83c with SMTP id v19-20020a056870e49300b0019f4778c83cmr2115676oag.17.1685718373288; Fri, 02 Jun 2023 08:06:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Guillaume Lelarge Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2023 17:06:02 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: RFC: a new try for an official community approved certification To: Dave Cramer Cc: Katherine Mcmillan , Valeria Kaplan , Adrian Klaver , Jaime Casanova , PostgreSQL Advocacy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d4e24205fd26e4d6" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --000000000000d4e24205fd26e4d6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le ven. 2 juin 2023 =C3=A0 16:54, Dave Cramer a =C3=A9crit : > > > On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 at 10:45, Guillaume Lelarge > wrote: > >> Le ven. 2 juin 2023 =C3=A0 16:35, Katherine Mcmillan a >> =C3=A9crit : >> >>> Hi Guillaume, >>> >>> That's interesting - the PostgreSQL training/testing that Dalibo is >>> offering is in French? >>> >>> >> Yes, that's only available in french. >> >> >>> I wonder if we could work out an agreement with Dalibo and build on the >>> training that you have already developed, rather than re-inventing the >>> wheel, so to speak. That way we're kind of building the unified or >>> standardized English and French training/testing at the same time >>> ('unified' or 'standardized' sounds better to me than 'community >>> developed'). >>> >>> >> I don't think we are discussing training. This could be an option for > companies to offer training for compensation. > I thought we were only discussing certification. In my mind that is just > the testing. > > You're definitely right. My first message was to say some companies do testing. I know mine does in french. And I think we're still interested in participating in a community work on the testing. Dave > >> I don't know, but it could be interesting. I'm not sure we did the work >> to update it to v15, but it sure covers v14. Anyway, I'm not the one who >> could decide such things :) >> >> >>> Just some thoughts :) >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Katie >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Guillaume Lelarge >>> *Sent:* 02 June 2023 10:06 >>> *To:* Katherine Mcmillan >>> *Cc:* Valeria Kaplan ; Adrian Klaver < >>> adrian.klaver@aklaver.com>; Jaime Casanova ; >>> PostgreSQL Advocacy >>> *Subject:* Re: RFC: a new try for an official community approved >>> certification >>> >>> *Attention : courriel externe | external email* >>> Hi, >>> >>> Le ven. 2 juin 2023 =C3=A0 15:13, Katherine Mcmillan a >>> =C3=A9crit : >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Not sure about this idea, but possibly a better one than having a singl= e >>> company (ex. Red Hat and EDB come to mind) run the show for >>> certifications/competency rating. I like it from this respect. >>> >>> >>> There are other companies doing PostgreSQL certification. SRA in Japan, >>> and Dalibo in France (disclaimer: I work for Dalibo) offer certificatio= n >>> exams for their customers. >>> >>> I will love the idea if you are able to, somehow, offer the >>> training/testing in languages other than English. PostgreSQL is an >>> international open source project and English-only training/testing is = not >>> very appropriate. This gives a huge advantage to the community's nativ= e >>> English speakers (the goal here is to produce something 'unbiased' I >>> thought). >>> >>> Perhaps develop it in English, with input from those from non-English >>> speaking countries on your working group, and then have it translated i= nto >>> multiple languages (also: be careful how you prioritize these, but if y= ou >>> have, say, a member from India on your working group, perhaps Hindi bec= omes >>> one of the first). >>> >>> >>> Multiple languages would be a must, I totally agree. Dalibo did its own >>> certification because the community didn't seem to be able to work on a >>> unified one, despite many tries. I'd love to see a unified Postgres >>> certification, and we (Dalibo) would gladly work on this project, but I >>> also am kinda skeptical of the outcome. >>> >>> Regards. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Guillaume. >>> >> >> >> -- >> Guillaume. >> > --=20 Guillaume. --000000000000d4e24205fd26e4d6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Le=C2=A0ven. 2 juin 2023 =C3=A0=C2=A016:54, Dave Cramer <davecram= er@postgres.rocks> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Fri, 2 J= un 2023 at 10:45, Guillaume Lelarge <guillaume@lelarge.info> wrote:
Le=C2=A0ven. 2 juin = 2023 =C3=A0=C2=A016:35, Katherine Mcmillan <kmcmi046@uottawa.ca> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0= :
Hi Guillaume,

That's interesting - the PostgreSQL training/testing that Dalibo is off= ering is in French?=C2=A0


Yes, that's only= available in french.
=C2=A0
I wonder if we could work out an agreement with Dalibo and build on the tra= ining that you have already developed, rather than re-inventing the wheel, = so to speak.=C2=A0 That way we're kind of building the unified or stand= ardized English and French training/testing at the same time ('unified' or 'standardized' sounds bette= r to me than 'community developed').


=
I don't think we are discussing training. This could be an option = for companies to offer training for compensation.
I thought we we= re only discussing certification. In my mind that is just the testing.


You're def= initely right. My first message was to say some companies do testing. I kno= w mine does in french. And I think we're still interested in participat= ing in a community work on the testing.

Dave
I do= n't know, but it could be interesting. I'm not sure we did the work= to update it to v15, but it sure covers v14. Anyway, I'm not the one w= ho could decide such things :)
=C2=A0
Just some thoughts :)

Sincerely,
Katie
From: Guillaume Lelarge <guillaume@lelarge.info>
Sent: 02 June 2023 10:06
To: Katherine Mcmillan <kmcmi046@uottawa.ca>
Cc: Valeria Kaplan <kaplan.valeria@gmail.com>; Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@akla= ver.com>; Jaime Casanova <jcasanov@systemguards.com.ec>; PostgreSQL= Advocacy <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: RFC: a new try for an official community approved certi= fication
=C2=A0
At= tention : courriel externe | external email
Hi,

Le=C2=A0ven. 2 juin 2023 =C3=A0=C2=A015:13, Katherine Mcmi= llan <kmcmi046@= uottawa.ca> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
Hello all,

Not sure about this idea, but possibly a better one than having a single co= mpany (ex. Red Hat and EDB come to mind) run the show for certifications/co= mpetency rating.=C2=A0 I like it from this respect.


There are other companies doing PostgreSQL certification. SRA in Japan= , and Dalibo in France (disclaimer: I work for Dalibo) offer certification = exams for their customers.

I will love the idea if you are able to, somehow, offer the training/testin= g in languages other than English.=C2=A0 PostgreSQL is an international ope= n source project and English-only training/testing is not very appropriate.= =C2=A0 This gives a huge advantage to the community's native English speakers (the goal here is to produce somet= hing 'unbiased' I thought).

Perhaps develop it in English, with input from those from non-English speak= ing countries on your working group, and then have it translated into multi= ple languages (also: be careful how you prioritize these, but if you have, = say, a member from India on your working group, perhaps Hindi becomes one of the first).=C2=A0=C2=A0


Multiple languages would be a must, I totally agree. Dalibo did its ow= n certification because the community didn't seem to be able to work on= a unified one, despite many tries. I'd love to see a unified Postgres = certification, and we (Dalibo) would gladly work on this project, but I also am kinda skeptical of the outcome.

Regards.


--
Guillaume.


--
Guillaume.
=


--
Guillaume.
= --000000000000d4e24205fd26e4d6--