Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1smdIP-007Htu-Ef for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 18:02:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1smdIO-001FQv-0N for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 18:02:56 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1smdIN-001FQm-M6 for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 18:02:56 +0000 Received: from mail-oa1-x29.google.com ([2001:4860:4864:20::29]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1smdIL-000U7D-AZ for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 18:02:55 +0000 Received: by mail-oa1-x29.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-260e6298635so1622372fac.1 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:02:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1725645771; x=1726250571; darn=lists.postgresql.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YJ/nzc9Vf3mBtMeApSB+Jw/4TXZDqZ/pJSdBl5sGRYg=; b=TiKWr8RA9kNpjLgAs8ZkKXccXT5kCPfJ1ppzCh23BFg+BNh0GQyqnS/qCsJntGrrFj mCbVhxhzFSB8u+2NtbmBd0shvQ1U14YmaxCxXcD++tAUyUegqNd1SqR626IdZmmHMCIT Bta72QMab0ffCjeHCC0Ry3IDq6bLA+frwpSOyLibO6oRZQpgQZ8bY4vY/QaOlmoVDkSq 2O8HzvdvMoTaz6cdiLstwLvSbrPWZGzH7yIExMto6nYTTU5ZUnwJc+chxGJ2VoVFemNJ lXzBMLRW25+T19u1u/1oQVi/G47rL0ykbOlntbeK0n4AZXaQUAK83UKntrYON3bw63Ij 8lNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1725645771; x=1726250571; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=YJ/nzc9Vf3mBtMeApSB+Jw/4TXZDqZ/pJSdBl5sGRYg=; b=DlLcXJEGgZr+40TSZoGZ4EIfy8oFR+3QWGZubwG8TMdH61kg+UtkJDxWwiX9Z+YXpR WYV0T1DlC8H00KU3CP4ESaIxQxIeWm8FTd3QpTdFquWMXot4K2qJRUe2LAVkZUZijTlX nb9lj8r1Mvu1hMVpTNHKdVEvqKNiEOVKa6MrlpnqVzpcanD5Byha1sgaSFagF4Ce/Z2K DuMCFDmvDGjIzLvmjGuTa/HUfuFIzDurnv0Ork6LptqXqyWPvkVNxwnjpQKIMFKNparh c1lkU8KO9EiUbWIr5YCsGdEBdtyiSWFNmSOYx61cxbkRIzVPZ3lXu/dbMo8ZSENL9JAz v4dw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUXrLyXC4qY9bnrhsGQV5zqufp26VFHAHUraTIlwU3kGK4vcPAK03DOdvbzBHBI7uP5FJKJGOpHbvyNyu2SdA==@lists.postgresql.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxHUo8A0hVqZ7OXcDSZjmPafd/q+kGJQ30HhPdg70kq2kkvJvU8 ErJYb9vi74MJOkCSL2a4G5tGpHvt37UYN6qyoLYXY2AgQTFlQts2ya08/86Hguo1/T1CzI9Zhwe eLW88pQhZGp0nMwzKBrXkVdyo4Y0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFsOIV0F+gzB5wFSPBBaO6U6At8s4ON+IiV1QbUgom3ORm9iGLl4Ci1vjcQ2x43RpzeeVlLmQ0yLcypnwMjJFg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:c683:b0:260:ffc8:6d9f with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-27b82889168mr1645261fac.19.1725645771527; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:02:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <81af1d33-1abb-4ddf-a7e9-859db718281c@postgresql.org> <906be4b7-9066-43db-8047-d34d85dff3ad@eisentraut.org> <42cd5d7e-cfe5-41cd-973f-efed698ca83c@aklaver.com> In-Reply-To: <42cd5d7e-cfe5-41cd-973f-efed698ca83c@aklaver.com> From: Andrew Atkinson Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2024 13:02:15 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: PostgreSQL 17 release announcement draft To: Adrian Klaver Cc: "Jonathan S. Katz" , Robert Haas , Peter Eisentraut , PostgreSQL Advocacy , "Zaledwie10minut@gmail.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000387bba06217737f1" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --000000000000387bba06217737f1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is looking crisper. Nice edits! I did one more read through and have minor comments and suggestions. ---------------------- > "PostgreSQL 17 introduces a new internal memory structure for vacuum was used that consumes up to 20x less memory" Small typo, I think "that" was missed: PostgreSQL 17 introduces a new internal memory structure for vacuum that consumes up to 20x less memory. ---------------------- > "and PostgreSQL 17 adds to its implementation SQL/JSON standard." is this missing "of the" ? and PostgreSQL 17 adds to its implementation "of" the SQL/JSON standard. ---------------------- "exporting,including" add space after "exporting", assuming this was copied correctly from the source file into google docs (which it may not have been) :) ---------------------- This is in the realm of personal preference/suggestion. The word "federated" is complex and I kind of understand it, but prefer simpler terminology. Here's a suggestion: "This release expands on functionality for managing data in partitions or federated on remote PostgreSQL instances." Alternative: "This release expands on functionality for managing data in partitions or data spread out between local and remote PostgreSQL instances." ---------------------- Suggestion: both "converts" and "creates" verbs are used in the docs to describe pg_createsubscriber. I like the verb "convert" because I think it speaks more to the purpose of being run on a physical replica, then turning it into a logical replication based instance as a subscriber. With that said, my suggested alternative is: PostgreSQL 17 introduces the [`pg_createsubscriber`]( https://www.postgresql.org/docs/17/app-pgcreatesubscriber.html ) command-line tool which can be used to convert a physical replica into a logical replica. ---------------------- > "which allows you to give users permission to execute maintenance operations." Suggested simplifications: which gives users the permissions needed to perform maintenance operations. which provides permissions for maintenance operations. ---------------------- > "the [`pg_combinebackup`]( https://www.postgresql.org/docs/17/app-pgcombinebackup.html ) or the backup restoration process" I thought the "or" here was maybe a mistake. Maybe it was meant to be "of". With that said, I pulled in the verb "reconstruct" the docs use. It's a fun verb and I know it coudl be translated to Spanish as reconstruir :) Suggestion: the [`pg_combinebackup`]( https://www.postgresql.org/docs/17/app-pgcombinebackup.html ) tool to reconstruct a full backup. ---------------------- > "reports the [progress of vacuuming indexes]( https://www.postgresql.org/docs/17/progress-reporting.html#VACUUM-PROGRESS-= REPORTING ), and adds the [`pg_wait_events`]( https://www.postgresql.org/docs/17/view-pg-wait-events.html ) For the system views, is the standard to refer to them without using the words system view? If so, it's fine here. If not, I think it's missing that= . Suggestion: "adds the `pg_wait_events` system view" (or "view") ---------------------- "Many other new features and improvements have been added to PostgreSQL 17. Many of these may also be helpful for your use cases." Recommend consolidating these two sentences. ---------------------- "## Licence" is the british english spelling intended here? ---------------------- Looks great! I even learned about more new features in this revised version! I checked the links and saw "17" everywhere I'd expect to see it. On Fri, Sep 6, 2024 at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM Adrian Klaver wrote: > > > On 9/6/24 10:03 AM, Jonathan S. Katz wrote: > > On 9/5/24 3:21 PM, Andrew Atkinson wrote: > > > Please see v2 attached. As per original note, please provide feedback > > before Mon, Sep 9 @ 12:00 UTC so we can begin the translation process. > > A quick read through found: > > "... the > [`pg_combinebackup`]( > https://www.postgresql.org/docs/17/app-pgcombinebackup.html) > > or the backup restoration process." > > I'm guessing that is "... for the backup restoration process." > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jonathan > > -- > Adrian Klaver > adrian.klaver@aklaver.com > --000000000000387bba06217737f1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is looking crisper. Nice edits! I di= d one more read through and have minor comments and suggestions.

----------------------

<= /div>
> "Pos= tgreSQL 17 introduces a new internal memory structure for vacuum
was used that consumes up to 20x less memory"


PostgreSQL 17 intro= duces a new internal memory structure for vacuum that consumes up to 20x le= ss memory.

----------------------


> "and PostgreSQL 17 = adds to its implementation SQL/JSON standard."

is this missing "of the" ?
and PostgreSQL 17 adds to its implementation "of&= quot; the SQL/JSON standard.


=
----------------------


"exporting,including"

add space after "exporting", assuming this was copied cor= rectly from the source file into google docs (which it may not have been) := )

-----------------= -----

= This is in the realm of personal preference/suggestion.=C2=A0<= /span>The word "federated" is complex and I kind of = understand it, but prefer simpler terminology. Here's a suggestion:

"This release expands on functio= nality for managing data in partitions or
fed= erated on remote PostgreSQL instances."

Alternative: "This release expands on functionality for man= aging data in partitions or data spread out between local and remote Postgr= eSQL instances."


----------------------



Suggestion: both "converts= " and "creates" verbs are used in the docs to=C2=A0describe = pg_createsubscriber. I like the verb "convert" because I think it= speaks more to the purpose of being run on a physical replica, then turnin= g it into a logical replication based instance as a subscriber.

With that said, my suggested alternative is:<= /span>

PostgreSQL 17 introduces the
[`pg_createsubscriber`](https://www.postgresql.org/docs/17/app-pgcreatesubscriber.html)
command-line tool which can be use= d to convert a physical replica into a logical replica.


----------------------


> "which allows you to give us= ers permission to execute maintenance operations."
Suggested simplifications:

which gives users the permissions needed to perform maintena= nce operations.

which provides permissions for maintenance operations.

---------= -------------

> "the [`pg_combinebackup`](https://ww= w.postgresql.org/docs/17/app-pgcombinebackup.html)=C2=A0
or the backup restoration process"

I thought= the "or" here was maybe a mistake. Maybe it was meant to be &quo= t;of". With that said, I pulled in the verb "reconstruct" th= e docs use. It's a fun verb and I know it coudl=C2=A0be translated to S= panish as reconstruir=C2=A0:)

Suggestion:=
the [`pg_combinebackup`](https://www.postgresql.org/docs/17/app-pgcombinebackup.html)=C2=A0
tool to reconstruct a full backup.

----------------------

> "reports the [progress = of vacuuming indexes](https://www.postgresql.org/docs/17/progress-reporting.html#VACUUM-PROGRESS= -REPORTING),
and adds the [`= pg_wait_events`](https://www.postgresql.org/docs= /17/view-pg-wait-events.html)

For the system views, is the standard to refer to them witho= ut using the words system view? If so, it's fine here. If not, I think = it's missing that.

Suggestion:= "adds the `pg_wait_events` system view" (or "view")

----------------------

"Many other new features and improvements have bee= n added to PostgreSQL 17. Many
of these may a= lso be helpful for your use cases."

Recommend consolidating these two sentences.


-------= ---------------

"## Licence" is the british english spelling intended here?

---------------------= -


Looks gre= at! I even learned about more new features in this revised version! I check= ed the links and saw "17" everywhere I'd expect to see it.










On Fri, Sep 6, 2024 at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM Adrian Klaver &l= t;adrian.kla= ver@aklaver.com> wrote:


On 9/6/24 10:03 AM, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
> On 9/5/24 3:21 PM, Andrew Atkinson wrote:

> Please see v2 attached. As per original note, please provide feedback =
> before Mon, Sep 9 @ 12:00 UTC so we can begin the translation process.=

A quick read through found:

"... the
[`pg_combinebackup`](https://www.postgres= ql.org/docs/17/app-pgcombinebackup.html)

or the backup restoration process."

I'm guessing that is "... for the backup restoration process."= ;

>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan

--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.klave= r@aklaver.com
--000000000000387bba06217737f1--