Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeBfP-0061bs-23 for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 09:51:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeBfN-00HYWY-Nd for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 09:51:13 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeBfN-00HYWO-Dx for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 09:51:13 +0000 Received: from mail-wm1-x32f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32f]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeBfI-003d25-US for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 09:51:12 +0000 Received: by mail-wm1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-402c46c49f4so8359295e9.1 for ; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 02:51:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1694080267; x=1694685067; darn=lists.postgresql.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8ZOKJV8JX5mTFNCi1PNAHV4yrF0YoshgKVq7/NhXXfc=; b=LnXiurhVkIQ56i4g7DUQsyS1G2UmnTorEeljje2RRw6nmH3yAC5PT0HmLQfcZceILv ZjSs3y1gnbAJDu8PXttRkVTa0iq0ERMlfP0mCjVXGI1VPivB7+7331xksAXg0EO7s9tU /3Rldk9D4MEF1F/QTTXCTG/x6qp20d5XpQbKDRasbBCMLWeSgVI2WyGNinD13XaOtqCh BPIHZg1jBeyM9w4KAES11a/AvmrSF+wTYtx+QAohFkvpiXef88EmXaneR2gUrnsh4XgM U09LFukGXv/9hNrZRsQbhhTErCR9SAYa+Ci0KyIsavSd1oXbir2w06SjLPqUKzCBx79z oQzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1694080267; x=1694685067; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=8ZOKJV8JX5mTFNCi1PNAHV4yrF0YoshgKVq7/NhXXfc=; b=DcLHZvnA8YMckH5RihtQpY6mf94lxWMRHvKi8SM40PClCiLzTRFzgHDGgyZbLTGWfN NzCPRxOkGxfpDc8lco/kmEeRDx8LoGHEMNsIcAj/xK+ZWYbHkh3Tl9pyBVgpDKMt2YcX b1YDWaEYWzHxIAIoL15qr8B2smVQ9fTfkXZDzc98Y98ZEGGbZvcfmZlC1YgGQlgbo7TQ WB1TRLT4ZNuxq9UJaJN92h9CealkPCchwjRmNAZPmAy3A18pD+SByhZ6hUdVdvMVa2dw jtleDiiaQXyy/Zm9jZl1UJYo+pwN+/B3LE6FSWj1N8PAJLPL7oumOtHusvPh0Dk+NQ0C +07g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxNH3bC5vtgqLD2iBDnwXlkqEsN1/2A/+e6vAI9sEV4aRdMplwb Rytnok9Um4rYY0vfLolD617Rtr0whAJ59joW618= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFIK6oHWHxLfyY/phm39w2k07o4BB7s8M++OTgXjkb7hnECVPVjgUT4dgFZQ0RtHdyvvOqbMoo1A9m3gEYFwiM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:2809:b0:3fe:2e0d:b715 with SMTP id m9-20020a05600c280900b003fe2e0db715mr4784392wmb.18.1694080267303; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 02:51:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Chris Travers Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 16:49:53 +0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Birmingham City Council chose Oracle, went broke because of it ;) To: Benjamin Scherrey Cc: Dave Page , Magnus Hagander , Justin Clift , PostgreSQL Advocacy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008dbe9e0604c1cca9" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --0000000000008dbe9e0604c1cca9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable An important lesson here is to always sit down with a client and understand their needs before selling an ERP....... On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 3:51=E2=80=AFPM Benjamin Scherrey wrote: > Well a) the costs of the system (still undelivered) is 4x the initial > contract ; and b) they've determined that the ERP was incapable of > performing the functions of the contract because it orientation for > manufacturing rather than HR. So not even Oracle has a competing product! > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 4:28 PM Dave Page wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, 7 Sept 2023 at 09:23, Magnus Hagander >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 1:49=E2=80=AFAM Justin Clift >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Heh Heh Heh. This is pretty funny: >>> > >>> > >>> https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/ >>> > >>> > "Birmingham City Council, the largest local authority in Europe, h= as >>> > declared itself in financial distress after troubled Oracle proje= ct >>> > costs ballooned from =C2=A320 million to around =C2=A3100 million= ($125.5 >>> > million)." >>> > >>> > Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choose = PG >>> > + a decent vendor instead? :) >>> >>> In fairness, that project is about Oracle Fusion, not the database. So >>> PG doesn't have a competing product. There are opensource ERP products >>> out there, but I'm not sure they're advanced enough to handle >>> something like that... >>> >> >> Indeed. It also only amounts for a fraction of the council's liabilities= . >> The vast majority is from an equal pay judgement against them, which iir= c, >> totals a couple of billion pounds (of which they've paid off over half i= n >> the last decade I believe). >> >> So, yeah, the Oracle thing is a massive screw up. But it's not what >> caused the majority of their problems. >> >> -- >> Dave Page >> pgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.org >> PostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org >> EDB: https://www.enterprisedb.com >> >> PGDay UK 2023, September 12, London: https://2023.pgday.uk >> >> >> --=20 Best Wishes, Chris Travers Efficito: Hosted Accounting and ERP. Robust and Flexible. No vendor lock-in. http://www.efficito.com/learn_more --0000000000008dbe9e0604c1cca9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
An important=C2=A0lesson=C2=A0here is to always sit down w= ith a client and understand their needs before selling an ERP.......
<= br>
On Thu,= Sep 7, 2023 at 3:51=E2=80=AFPM Benjamin Scherrey <scherrey@proteus-tech.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Well a) = the costs of the system (still undelivered) is 4x the initial contract ; an= d b) they've determined that the ERP was incapable of performing the fu= nctions of the contract because it orientation for manufacturing rather tha= n HR. So not even Oracle has a competing product!=C2=A0

On Thu, Sep 7, 2023,= 4:28 PM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:


On Thu, 7 Sept 20= 23 at 09:23, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at= 1:49=E2=80=AFAM Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org> wrote: >
> Heh Heh Heh.=C2=A0 This is pretty funny:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 h= ttps://www.theregister.com/2023/09/05/birmingham_city_council_oracle/ >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Birmingham City Council, the largest local authorit= y in Europe, has
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0declared itself in financial distress after trouble= d Oracle project
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0costs ballooned from =C2=A320 million to around =C2= =A3100 million ($125.5
> million)."
>
> Wonder if they'll make the smart choice next time around, and choo= se PG
> + a decent vendor instead? :)

In fairness, that project is about Oracle Fusion, not the database. So
PG doesn't have a competing product. There are opensource ERP products<= br> out there, but I'm not sure they're advanced enough to handle
something like that...

Indeed. It also = only amounts for a fraction of the council's liabilities. The vast majo= rity is from an equal pay judgement against them, which iirc, totals a coup= le of billion pounds (of which they've paid off over half in the last d= ecade I believe).

So, yeah, the Oracle thing is a = massive screw up. But it's not what caused the majority of their proble= ms.
=C2=A0
-- <= /span>


--
Best Wishes,
Chris Travers

Effi= cito: =C2=A0Hosted Accounting and ERP.=C2=A0 Robust and Flexible.=C2=A0 No = vendor lock-in.
--0000000000008dbe9e0604c1cca9--