Subject: PostgreSQL on K8 with Operator

From: SASIKUMAR Devaraj <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 03:54:26 +0000 (UTC)

Hi All
Greetings.
I am looking for advise of running Postgres in K8 along with Operator.  Which Operator will be best for this solution? Is any company running the similar setup in Production?
Regards,Sasi

---

From: Valeria Kaplan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 10:19:20 +0000

Hi Sasi,

Thank you for reaching out.

You will need to either contact individual companies that provide
PostgreSQL services (you can google them or take a look here:
https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/) or you can also
reach out to the community through Slack (postgresteam.slack.com) or
Telegram (https://t.me/pg_sql) channels where individual consultants might
be able to help.

We can't recommend a specific operator or comment on their expertise.

Kind regards,
Valeria

Valeria Kaplan
PostgreSQL advocacy

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 3:54 AM SASIKUMAR Devaraj <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Hi All
>
> Greetings.
>
> I am looking for advise of running Postgres in K8 along with Operator.
> Which Operator will be best for this solution? Is any company running the
> similar setup in Production?
>
> Regards,
> Sasi
>

---

From: Katherine Mcmillan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 12:18:54 -0500

Hello,

Just a question related to the list at:
https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/, is there any
curation done for this listing?

I just wonder about a list that includes both well-established experts that
focus on PostgreSQL (ex. EDB, Crunchy Data, Data Egret, PostgreSQL Experts,
etc.) when companies with 1 employee and without a working website are also
on that listing (ex. PostgreSQL International). Seems like there should be
some basic standards for being listed, for example: you are a registered
business, you have more than one employee (ie. you haven't just created a
name for your one-person consultancy, there could be a separate listing for
independent consultants), you have a working website and up-to-date contact
information, you follow PostgreSQL community standards/OSS policies, etc.

There also seem to be a number of companies that would be difficult to
categorize as "PostgreSQL specialists" considering the breadth of their
work and expertise, ex. Heroku, Savoir-Faire Linux, Web Global Net, Moki
Systems, etc. yet they are on that list.  This could be the start of a
slippery slope.

Personally, I would struggle to pick out a reputable company with real
expertise/focus on PostgreSQL from that listing at present, if I did not
have any other familiarity with the companies.

Sincerely,
Katie

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 5:19 AM Valeria Kaplan <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Telegram (https://t.me/pg_sql) channels where individual consultants
> might be able to help.
>

---

From: Elein <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 10:42:52 -0800

Just a quick point. It is up to the purchaser of services to vet the services for their needs. 
One size does not fit all, especially in this open source community. 
Disparaging 1-person business would lose great resources as well as steady income for talented people. 

Elein Mustain
[email-masked]
510-637-9106

> On Dec 8, 2020, at 9:19 AM, Katherine Mcmillan <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Just a question related to the list at: https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/, is there any curation done for this listing?
> 
> I just wonder about a list that includes both well-established experts that focus on PostgreSQL (ex. EDB, Crunchy Data, Data Egret, PostgreSQL Experts, etc.) when companies with 1 employee and without a working website are also on that listing (ex. PostgreSQL International). Seems like there should be some basic standards for being listed, for example: you are a registered business, you have more than one employee (ie. you haven't just created a name for your one-person consultancy, there could be a separate listing for independent consultants), you have a working website and up-to-date contact information, you follow PostgreSQL community standards/OSS policies, etc.
> 
> There also seem to be a number of companies that would be difficult to categorize as "PostgreSQL specialists" considering the breadth of their work and expertise, ex. Heroku, Savoir-Faire Linux, Web Global Net, Moki Systems, etc. yet they are on that list.  This could be the start of a slippery slope.
> 
> Personally, I would struggle to pick out a reputable company with real expertise/focus on PostgreSQL from that listing at present, if I did not have any other familiarity with the companies.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Katie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 5:19 AM Valeria Kaplan <[email-masked]> wrote:
>> Hi Sasi,
>> 
>> You will need to either contact individual companies that provide PostgreSQL services (you can google them or take a look here: https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/) or you can also reach out to the community through Slack (postgresteam.slack.com) or Telegram (https://t.me/pg_sql) channels where individual consultants might be able to help.
>> 
>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 3:54 AM SASIKUMAR Devaraj <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>> Hi All
>>> 
>>> Greetings.
>>>

---

From: Magnus Hagander <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 19:59:00 +0100

> curation done for this listing?

Not beyond that the moderator will verify that they are providing *some*
PostgreSQL service when they sign up. There is unfortunately no recurring
check of companies if they*still* provide it, they are only validated at
signup time.

Jonathan has done one or two big reviews with long intervals in between,
but that's not really a sustainable way to handle it either. Getting that
fixed with a proper long term solution is definitely on the todo list, just
that we haven't figured out exactly what's needed yet.

-- 
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ <http://www.hagander.net/>
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ <http://www.redpill-linpro.com/>

---

From: Katherine Mcmillan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 16:38:03 -0500

Hi Magnus,

Thanks for your response.  If there is an opportunity for me to be part of
the solution, please let me know.  I will also chat with Jonathan.

Sincerely,
Katie

---

From: Nikolay Samokhvalov <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 14:54:07 -0800

There is a 2-part article that compares operators from Zalando, Crunchy,
KubeDB and StackGres.io (unfortunately only in Russian, but Google
Translate and its alternatives do job well nowadays)
https://habr.com/en/company/flant/blog/527524/

All of them are being developed very actively, so I recommend defining your
own goals and making your own tests (plus, maybe talking to developers on
your own needs to see where a good match exists).

---

From: SASIKUMAR Devaraj <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 07:11:46 +0000 (UTC)

Excellent. Will review this and keep updated about our progress. Is anybody aware of any Production is running with PostgreSQL,K8 and Operator today?
    On Wednesday, 9 December, 2020, 04:24:20 am IST, Nikolay Samokhvalov <[email-masked]> wrote:  
 
 There is a 2-part article that compares operators from Zalando, Crunchy, KubeDB and StackGres.io (unfortunately only in Russian, but Google Translate and its alternatives do job well nowadays) https://habr.com/en/company/flant/blog/527524/
All of them are being developed very actively, so I recommend defining your own goals and making your own tests (plus, maybe talking to developers on your own needs to see where a good match exists).
On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 19:54 SASIKUMAR Devaraj <[email-masked]> wrote:

Hi All
Greetings.

---

From: Dave Cramer <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 05:09:40 -0500

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 at 02:12, SASIKUMAR Devaraj <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Excellent. Will review this and keep updated about our progress. Is
> anybody aware of any Production is running with PostgreSQL,K8 and Operator
> today?
>

Many people are running on those 3 operators in production

Dave Cramer
www.postgres.rocks

> All of them are being developed very actively, so I recommend defining
> your own goals and making your own tests (plus, maybe talking to developers
> on your own needs to see where a good match exists).
>

---

From: Justin Clift <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 22:33:31 +1100

On 2020-12-08 21:19, Valeria Kaplan wrote:
> might

Looking at that Community Slack just now, it seems to only allow logins
by people with specific domains as their email address:

   * omniti.com
   * wingspan.com
   * getchef.com
   * pgexperts.com
   * citusdata.com
   * 8kdata.com
   * peoplecall.com
   * enterprisedb.com
   * nabancard.com
   * 2ndquadrant.com
   * circonus.com
   * postgrespro.ru
   * openscg.com

Guessing it's not (yet?) a channel for general contact from Community
members?

+ Justin

---

From: Magnus Hagander <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 12:36:15 +0100

> Guessing it's not (yet?) a channel for general contact from Community

That sounds very strange.

I'm not an active user of the slack channel, but I definitely have an
account there, and I'm definitely not using any of those addresses. And I'm
willing to bet there's a large number of users with gmail addresses there...

---

From: Valeria Kaplan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 11:37:44 +0000

Hi Justin,

I was able to log in and don't have an email with either of those domains,
so pretty sure it is open for all.
There are close to 10k people on it, I doubt they all have emails with
those domains.

Valeria

---

From: Dave Page <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 11:52:24 +0000

> There are close to 10k people on it, I doubt they all have emails with

Maybe those domains just get automatically approved, whereas others are
manual.

-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com

---

From: Justin Clift <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 23:14:32 +1100

> Maybe those domains just get automatically approved, whereas others are

Hmmm, maybe I'm doing something wrong.  Two screenshots attached, to 
show
what I'm seeing.

   * 01 - the login page (for existing accounts)
   * 02 - the "create account" page, to create a new account

The "create account" page only allows specific domains, though it has a
note to "Contact the workspace administrator at Postgres for an 
invitation."
for all others.  With no actual link to contact info for the workspace
admin. ;)

Hmmm, it does have a "Continue with Google" button though, so I guess
Google users are able to login too?  For me, that's not going to work as
Google locked me out of my account when I moved from the UK to 
Australia. :/

Note that this isn't urgent nor important in any way, I was more 
checking
the Slack out of curiosity and for general awareness. :)

+ Justin

---

From: Valeria Kaplan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 12:24:11 +0000

hmm. I've probably used the Google button when first signed in.
and what happens if you "continue with email"?

---

From: Valeria Kaplan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 12:26:37 +0000

Apologies, I thought it was a separate button for a generic email not from
the domain list.
It might be a good idea to check with Slack admins (not sure who that is)
to check what they had in mind when restricting number of domains for that
channel. Will try to find out.

---

From: Justin Clift <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 00:18:23 +1100

Thanks to Valeria for sending me an invite to the Slack, I've been able 
to
join and chat with the PG Slack owner (@denish, CC'd).

It turns out there's a specific page we should be sending new people for
joining the PG Slack:

   https://postgres-slack.herokuapp.com

That's an app which generates invites to the PG Slack, and doesn't have 
a
restriction on email address. :)

(On a semi-related note, the Go language Slack has an app for the same
thing.  Seems a fairly standard approach for larger sized Slacks these
days.)

+ Justin

---

From: Valeria Kaplan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 14:23:36 +0000

aha!
that's good to know.
Thank you, Justin

---

From: "Jonathan S. Katz" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 09:26:34 -0500

On 12/9/20 9:23 AM, Valeria Kaplan wrote:
> aha!
> that's good to know.
> Thank you, Justin
> 
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 1:18 PM Justin Clift <[email-masked]
> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
> 
>     <https://postgres-slack.herokuapp.com>
> 

When checking the website[1] it appears that we link to that URL. Is it
appearing somewhere else on the website where it is not being linked to
that signup form?

Thanks,

Jonathan

[1] https://www.postgresql.org/community/

---

From: Valeria Kaplan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 14:36:35 +0000

I've sent the incorrect link to Sasi by copying it from the Slack channel
directly (since I'm on it).
So guess that's not an issue, unless somebody else does the same as I did
and sends the link to a person who doesn't have gmail or a listed domain.
The chances are quite slim though, I think.

---

From: Stephen Frost <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 11:35:44 -0500

Greetings,

> appearing somewhere else on the website where it is not being linked to

[ ... ]

> [1] https://www.postgresql.org/community/

... should we really be sending people to such a herokuapp site to sign
up?  Seems like something we could probably manage to make part of
pg.org, and really should..

Not sure if there's a way for the slack admin to change the URL that
folks on the slack channel see, but if so, that'd be nice to change too,
so that there isn't this confusion in the future.  Also seems unlikely
that we need to have that list of domains be associated with the
community slack...?  Also leads to confusion.

Thanks,

Stephen

---

From: Justin Clift <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 15:55:07 +1100

On 2020-12-10 03:35, Stephen Frost wrote:
<snip>
> pg.org, and really should..

Denish seems to be on the PG Advocacy mailing list now, and is CC-d 
anyway.
So it probably wouldn't be too hard to move to PG infrastructure
hosting. :)

> community slack...?  Also leads to confusion.

You mean the "postgresteam.slack.com" domain name?  That kind of thing
is pretty standard for Slack, and the "postgresteam" name seem on topic
enough to be ok (to me). :)

The list-of-domains thing sounds like it might be fixable in a month or
two once the new Salesforce ownership of Slack has settled a bit more. 
:)

+ Justin

---

From: Stephen Frost <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 11:29:14 -0500

Greetings,

* Justin Clift ([email-masked]) wrote:
> Denish seems to be on the PG Advocacy mailing list now, and is CC-d anyway.

I suppose it'd probably be clearer to say that we'd be re-implementing
the functionality of what that app does on pginfra as part of pgweb.
Looks like it'd be pretty trivial to do, as the main part of the app is:

https://github.com/rauchg/slackin/blob/master/lib/slack-invite.js

In pgweb, for users who have registered an account, we've already got
their email address (and vetted it) and therefore we could actually make
the link from .Org go to a logged-in page that then sends the
appropriate call to postgresteam.slack.com to have them send the email
invite.

> enough to be ok (to me). :)

I wasn't referring to that as being an issue, but rather wondering if
there was a way on the admin side of the slack team to modify the URL
that shows when you click on the top-left drop-down menu, to make it
point to the .Org Community page, or something along those lines, so
that folks don't send people to the postgresteam.slack.com URL by
mistake, as happened here.

> two once the new Salesforce ownership of Slack has settled a bit more. :)

With the above, I wouldn't think we'd need to have the list of domains
at all, which seems like it'd be a general improvement and would
hopefully reduce the confusion.

Thanks,

Stephen

---

From: Alvaro Herrera <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 13:46:48 -0300

> mistake, as happened here.

Sounds easy to solve ... install a Mattermost instance in a PG community
host, have people join that.  Done :-)

---

From: Stephen Frost <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 11:48:50 -0500

Greetings,

> host, have people join that.  Done :-)

Hah, well, if you'd like to work on that, I'm not against doing that
too...

Thanks,

Stephen