Message-ID: <45150ad278a8bbb1b51ec02da991153bd2277e1f.camel@cybertec.at>
Subject: Re: BUG #18362: unaccent rules and Old Greek text
From: Laurenz Albe <laurenz.albe@cybertec.at>
To: Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>, Thomas Munro
 <thomas.munro@gmail.com>
Cc: Cees van Zeeland <cees.van.zeeland@freedom.nl>, Michael Paquier
	 <michael@paquier.xyz>, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>,
	pgsql-bugs@lists.postgresql.org
Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 17:45:35 +0200
In-Reply-To: 
 <CA+TgmobZvFiTHhnO=jBqffMY=5OTB7R=jAkVRRR13yQG11UnvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18362-be6d0cfe122b6354@postgresql.org>
	 <CA+hUKGLpoxTRryM1MxaHMpC1c5cxoKDm0iXfogQR9KGVUG=w9w@mail.gmail.com>
	 <ZdvLGeJ1BsXRkrdQ@paquier.xyz>
	 <d9875ca6-6438-4c52-adc1-5bc2ed28c362@freedom.nl>
	 <CA+hUKGK7OKZcCpvD92RyJtu6m_b6XRuZRNqSu_5Y3vHDn7KDpA@mail.gmail.com>
	 <CA+TgmobZvFiTHhnO=jBqffMY=5OTB7R=jAkVRRR13yQG11UnvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Autocrypt: addr=laurenz.albe@cybertec.at; prefer-encrypt=mutual;
 keydata=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
 bT5UrLvJ2jb99bA9QARzhFaxzyn0F/BUKzuIjRGNs/n6d5dNUFA0kOt8sX+TacmC
 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
 lDrT4wxdLJ/XCdbPPAyl+lZtOLsaHEEZvYNyTXwZc35dVf3R4/oz20HoG6s7ct8e1
 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
 36UMAx4ulWMyqJajLNGY0DdG8qIsR5nxRhrnK/mrCidZ8F9/D3bWAl4rjtHlsztN59
 +AnW5l0HsQcY9ntFL/zEBOaonjdJf
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.4 (3.50.4-1.fc39) 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: 
 <https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/45150ad278a8bbb1b51ec02da991153bd2277e1f.camel%40cybertec.at>
Precedence: bulk

On Tue, 2024-05-14 at 10:51 -0400, Robert Haas wrote:
> The question of which mappings we actually ought to be adding seems
> a lot harder, because it's not altogether clear what it means to
> "remove an accent". The proposed patch adds a whole lot of rules that
> turn tiny little characters into full-sized characters, boldfaced
> and/or italicized and/or otherwise-fancily-printed characters into
> full-sized characters. Only a handful of the changes are actually
> adding rules that specifically *remove an accent*, but there are
> similar rules that already exist, like turning =E2=85=90 into the
> four-character sequence " 1/7" and blocky-looking versions of each
> letter into standard versions and =E3=8D=B1 into the three-character sequ=
ence
> "hPa". So my naive guess would be that we want all of these rules,
> even though you would not guess from the unaccent documentation that
> it's supposed to do stuff like this. But my knowledge of languages
> other than English is very limited, and I am not a user of unaccent
> and never have been, so I am reluctant to make grand pronouncements.
> Does anyone more knowledgeable want to opine?

I am not necessarily more knowledgeable, but I'll opine anyway.

As a German speaker, I wouldn't call the dieresis on "=C3=BC" an
accent like the French =C3=A9, =C3=A8 or =C3=AA, even though the current
implementation of unaccent() turns it into an "u".

And while most people would agree that the caret on =C3=A2 is an
accent in the French language, I am not sure if it is the same
in Vietnamese.

And I cannot see how =E2=85=90 could be considered an accent...

Perhaps if we invent a function called convert_to_ascii() or so
instead of shoving that into unaccent(), it would make more sense.

Yours,
Laurenz Albe