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* uuid type not documented
@ 2007-04-10 15:24 Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 15:30 ` Re: uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-11 12:07 ` Re: uuid type not documented Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2007-04-10 15:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; pgsql-docs
The new uuid type is lacking documentation. Could you please work on that?
At least assemble a list of things that exist so that others can build
documentation around that.
--
Peter Eisentraut
http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 2007-04-10 15:30 ` Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 16:28 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Neil Conway @ 2007-04-10 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; pgsql-docs
On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 17:24 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> The new uuid type is lacking documentation.
We had also talked about including some UUID generation functionality in
8.3, but it should be okay to leave that for 8.4.
-Neil
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 15:30 ` Re: uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
@ 2007-04-10 16:28 ` Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 16:34 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-04-10 19:30 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-11 06:46 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Marko Kreen <markokr@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2007-04-10 16:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>; +Cc: Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Am Dienstag, 10. April 2007 17:30 schrieb Neil Conway:
> On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 17:24 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> > The new uuid type is lacking documentation.
>
> We had also talked about including some UUID generation functionality in
> 8.3, but it should be okay to leave that for 8.4.
The problem is that most of the standard methods are platform dependent, as
they require MAC addresses or a "good" random source, for instance. I'm not
sure how we wanted to solve that, but certainly leaving the uuid type with
*no* method to generate one is pretty poor.
--
Peter Eisentraut
http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 15:30 ` Re: uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 16:28 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 2007-04-10 16:34 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-04-10 17:07 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2007-04-10 16:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>; Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 10. April 2007 17:30 schrieb Neil Conway:
>> On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 17:24 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
>>> The new uuid type is lacking documentation.
>> We had also talked about including some UUID generation functionality in
>> 8.3, but it should be okay to leave that for 8.4.
>
> The problem is that most of the standard methods are platform dependent, as
> they require MAC addresses or a "good" random source, for instance. I'm not
> sure how we wanted to solve that, but certainly leaving the uuid type with
> *no* method to generate one is pretty poor.
Actually, I would say that not having the ability to generate a UUID is
just fine. Most languages, have the ability to generate them per their
particular platforms. Let's leave it to them.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
>
--
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^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 15:30 ` Re: uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 16:28 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 16:34 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
@ 2007-04-10 17:07 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2007-04-10 17:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; +Cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>; Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
"Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com> writes:
> Peter Eisentraut wrote:
>> The problem is that most of the standard methods are platform dependent, as
>> they require MAC addresses or a "good" random source, for instance. I'm not
>> sure how we wanted to solve that, but certainly leaving the uuid type with
>> *no* method to generate one is pretty poor.
> Actually, I would say that not having the ability to generate a UUID is
> just fine. Most languages, have the ability to generate them per their
> particular platforms. Let's leave it to them.
Let us *not* open that can of worms for 8.3. This patch would not have
got in except that it didn't attempt to solve that problem, and there's
even less time available now.
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 15:30 ` Re: uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 16:28 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 2007-04-10 19:30 ` Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 19:49 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net>
2007-04-10 20:04 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Florian G. Pflug <fgp@phlo.org>
2007-04-10 21:25 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2 siblings, 3 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Neil Conway @ 2007-04-10 19:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 18:28 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> The problem is that most of the standard methods are platform dependent, as
> they require MAC addresses or a "good" random source, for instance.
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2007-01/msg00392.php
ISTM random() or similar sources is a sufficient PSRNG for the purposes
of UUID generation -- I can't see anything in the RFC that would
contradict that.
-Neil
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 15:30 ` Re: uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 16:28 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 19:30 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
@ 2007-04-10 19:49 ` Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net>
2007-04-11 05:28 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Roman Neuhauser <neuhauser@sigpipe.cz>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Andrew Dunstan @ 2007-04-10 19:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>; +Cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Neil Conway wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 18:28 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
>
>> The problem is that most of the standard methods are platform dependent, as
>> they require MAC addresses or a "good" random source, for instance.
>>
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2007-01/msg00392.php
>
> ISTM random() or similar sources is a sufficient PSRNG for the purposes
> of UUID generation -- I can't see anything in the RFC that would
> contradict that.
>
>
How about we set up a contrib (I wish we'd fixed that) module with an
example function or two?
cheers
andrew
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 15:30 ` Re: uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 16:28 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 19:30 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 19:49 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net>
@ 2007-04-11 05:28 ` Roman Neuhauser <neuhauser@sigpipe.cz>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Roman Neuhauser @ 2007-04-11 05:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net>; +Cc: Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>; Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
# andrew@dunslane.net / 2007-04-10 15:49:08 -0400:
> Neil Conway wrote:
> >On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 18:28 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> >
> >>The problem is that most of the standard methods are platform dependent,
> >>as they require MAC addresses or a "good" random source, for instance.
> >>
> >
> >http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2007-01/msg00392.php
> >
> >ISTM random() or similar sources is a sufficient PSRNG for the purposes
> >of UUID generation -- I can't see anything in the RFC that would
> >contradict that.
> >
> >
>
> How about we set up a contrib (I wish we'd fixed that) module with an
> example function or two?
Thought I'd mention Ralph Engelschall's uuid library, comes with
a PostgreSQL binding:
http://www.ossp.org/pkg/lib/uuid/
http://cvs.ossp.org/fileview?f=ossp-pkg/uuid/pgsql/uuid.txt&v=1.1
I only played with it some time ago.
--
How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb?
You don't know, man. You don't KNOW.
Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 15:30 ` Re: uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 16:28 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 19:30 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
@ 2007-04-10 20:04 ` Florian G. Pflug <fgp@phlo.org>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Florian G. Pflug @ 2007-04-10 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>; +Cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Neil Conway wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 18:28 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
>> The problem is that most of the standard methods are platform dependent, as
>> they require MAC addresses or a "good" random source, for instance.
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2007-01/msg00392.php
>
> ISTM random() or similar sources is a sufficient PSRNG for the purposes
> of UUID generation -- I can't see anything in the RFC that would
> contradict that.
Maybe a short-term solution could be a UUID-generated function that
takes some kind of seed as a parameter. People not concerned about
collisons could just pass some random value, while others could use
the mac-address of the client or something similar.
greetings, Florian Pflug
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 15:30 ` Re: uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 16:28 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 19:30 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
@ 2007-04-10 21:25 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2007-04-10 21:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>; +Cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com> writes:
> On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 18:28 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
>> The problem is that most of the standard methods are platform dependent, as
>> they require MAC addresses or a "good" random source, for instance.
> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2007-01/msg00392.php
> ISTM random() or similar sources is a sufficient PSRNG for the purposes
> of UUID generation -- I can't see anything in the RFC that would
> contradict that.
Doesn't seem like quite enough bits of uniqueness.
We could improve matters by incorporating the database's
pg_control.system_identifier into the UUID, substituting for the MAC
address we don't have a good way to get. system_identifier is currently
determined by the system clock at initdb time (to gettimeofday
precision), so it would add at least some additional bits of
randomness...
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 15:30 ` Re: uuid type not documented Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 16:28 ` Re: [DOCS] uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 2007-04-11 06:46 ` Marko Kreen <markokr@gmail.com>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Marko Kreen @ 2007-04-11 06:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>; Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
On 4/10/07, Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> wrote:
> The problem is that most of the standard methods are platform dependent, as
> they require MAC addresses or a "good" random source, for instance.
FYI: good random source is already available in pgcrypto,
it uses either OpenSSL RAND_bytes() or internal strong PRNG.
--
marko
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 2007-04-11 12:07 ` Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>
2007-04-12 07:14 ` Re: uuid type not documented Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2007-04-20 21:53 ` Re: uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Gevik Babakhani @ 2007-04-11 12:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: pgsql-docs
Sorry for this late reply....
I go work on the docs. What is the deadline on this... (have to
rearrange some other things...)
On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 17:24 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> The new uuid type is lacking documentation. Could you please work on that?
> At least assemble a list of things that exist so that others can build
> documentation around that.
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-11 12:07 ` Re: uuid type not documented Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>
@ 2007-04-12 07:14 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Magnus Hagander @ 2007-04-12 07:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; +Cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; pgsql-docs
The roadmap lists mid-may for all patches to be reviewed and applied, so
for a docs patch I guess we'd like to have it early may at the latest.
(We'll still accept docs patches later, but I think only when they're more
along the lines of correction, not when it's a whole feature that's not
documented)
//Magnus
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 02:07:55PM +0200, Gevik Babakhani wrote:
> Sorry for this late reply....
> I go work on the docs. What is the deadline on this... (have to
> rearrange some other things...)
>
> On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 17:24 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> > The new uuid type is lacking documentation. Could you please work on that?
> > At least assemble a list of things that exist so that others can build
> > documentation around that.
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-11 12:07 ` Re: uuid type not documented Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>
@ 2007-04-20 21:53 ` Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-05-14 08:29 ` Re: uuid type not documented Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2007-04-20 21:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>; +Cc: pgsql-docs
Gevik Babakhani wrote:
> Sorry for this late reply....
> I go work on the docs. What is the deadline on this... (have to
> rearrange some other things...)
I've written some basic documentation. Please check
<http://developer.postgresql.org/pgdocs/postgres/datatype.html; (in a
while) to see if I got everything right.
--
Peter Eisentraut
http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: uuid type not documented
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-11 12:07 ` Re: uuid type not documented Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>
2007-04-20 21:53 ` Re: uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 2007-05-14 08:29 ` Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Gevik Babakhani @ 2007-05-14 08:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: pgsql-docs
Hi,
I think the basic description for the UUID datatype is okay. Perhaps we
could add some basic examples to the documentation later. Thank you.
Regards,
Gevik.
On Fri, 2007-04-20 at 23:53 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Gevik Babakhani wrote:
> > Sorry for this late reply....
> > I go work on the docs. What is the deadline on this... (have to
> > rearrange some other things...)
>
> I've written some basic documentation. Please check
> <http://developer.postgresql.org/pgdocs/postgres/datatype.html; (in a
> while) to see if I got everything right.
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 15+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-05-14 08:29 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-04-10 15:24 uuid type not documented Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 15:30 ` Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 16:28 ` Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-04-10 16:34 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-04-10 17:07 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2007-04-10 19:30 ` Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com>
2007-04-10 19:49 ` Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net>
2007-04-11 05:28 ` Roman Neuhauser <neuhauser@sigpipe.cz>
2007-04-10 20:04 ` Florian G. Pflug <fgp@phlo.org>
2007-04-10 21:25 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2007-04-11 06:46 ` Marko Kreen <markokr@gmail.com>
2007-04-11 12:07 ` Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>
2007-04-12 07:14 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2007-04-20 21:53 ` Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-05-14 08:29 ` Gevik Babakhani <pgdev@xs4all.nl>
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