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* Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
@ 1999-10-14 14:04 ` Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 18:05 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Clark C. Evans @ 1999-10-14 14:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>
Bruce,
Were you going to do this as a "group" project or
is it a "solo" venture?
If its a group project, I assume you are the "owner"
of the "uber-contract" until it sells to a book
publisher. To do this right, you would divide
this contract into small peices, or sub-contracts.
Then, as people contribute, their time is tracked
against these components. Right now, for instance,
you have a book-outline project which people are
working on; it could be decided that the book-outline
sub contract is worth ".5%" of the book ownership.
Then, as people track their time against these
sub-contracts, a summary (once a week) is presented
to you (the owner of the contract) for approval
of their hours. If approved, then the contributer
owns a portion of the sub-contract, and thus a
portion of the overall book. How compensation is
done is up to you if you specify it before hand,
or it is up to the owners if you wait until the book
sells. The compensation schedule may be something
like this:
Up to | Compensation
------+-------------------
0.1% | Listed as "helper"
0.5% | Listed as "contributor", including a
| very small biography; perhaps including
| company name for free advertising.
2.0% | Listed as "major contributor", including
| a full biography and a picture.
10.0% | Listed as "co-author", entitiled to
| the same percentage of royalty stream.
30.0% | Listed as "editor", entitied to a
| percentage of any book signing bonus plus
| the same percentage of royalty stream
Thus, the total royalty stream allocated will
be less than 100%, and will be divided among,
at most 9 people, which is managable. The remainder
of the royalty stream can be donated to the
site maintenance or can be used to fund a bonus
pool for future projects / documentation maintance.
...
However, if it is a "solo" deal, then you you should
make it pretty clear -- otherwise I see heart-ache and
bad feelings.
...
Why do it this way? Beacuse PostgreSQL is a community
effort, and a solo book sucks. Also, you want the
book done, so direct rewards for contribution work
does wonders! To use parts of the documentation,
Thomas Lockheart would have to be given a percentage
in the book, etc. Anyway, if the system is clear
you will get far more help than otherwise...
I'll be glad to maintain the "contract hierarchy"
(per your direction) and to accept timesheets
from people, preparing a weelky summary for you
to approve. Then, I will maintain a page with
progress on each sub-contract (or sub-sub-contract)
so that we can go about this in a very organized way.
I'm in it to see a kick ass book and to see
a collaborative effort win.
What do you think? Thomas?
Clark
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
1999-10-14 14:04 ` Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
@ 1999-10-14 18:05 ` Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 17:51 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 19:01 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 1999-10-14 18:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>; +Cc: PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>
>
> Bruce,
>
> Were you going to do this as a "group" project or
> is it a "solo" venture?
I am taking this on as a solo project.
> However, if it is a "solo" deal, then you you should
> make it pretty clear -- otherwise I see heart-ache and
> bad feelings.
I have hesitated to talk about this in any more detail until I have
discussed this via telephone with Marc, Thomas, and Tom Lane. I feel I
need to get clearance from them on this. Vadim, unfortunately, is too
far away to telephone.
> Why do it this way? Beacuse PostgreSQL is a community
> effort, and a solo book sucks. Also, you want the
> book done, so direct rewards for contribution work
> does wonders! To use parts of the documentation,
> Thomas Lockheart would have to be given a percentage
> in the book, etc. Anyway, if the system is clear
> you will get far more help than otherwise...
Well, I don't think a "group-written" book is going to read very well.
Everyone has a different style, and a mis-mash of writing styles in a
book will not work. It also will take too long to produce a book in
that way.
The book will be available via the Web and in PDF format even before it
is completed. (I am writing it using LyX/LaTeX). I have written the
first two chapters, and will be putting them out for everyone to read
and use very soon. This book project will clearly be a win for all
PostgreSQL users, whether they buy the book or not.
That doesn't mean I will not be including significant amount of our
existing documentation. For example, I would probably include the
'manual' pages at the end of the book, like many computer books.
As far a money, let me mention something. While making $0 with
PostgreSQL (I don't use it in my work, or even at home to store any
data.), I have always offered to put money into the project because I
think it is only fair that the costs be born fairly by the people
involved. I have sent money to support our server, I have offered to
send more in the past, and have offered to host the PostgreSQL Award
around-the-world tour by including checks to pay for every leg of the
trip. I have done other monetary gifts for PostgreSQL.
So, if there need for some money for PostgreSQL, let me know. With or
without the book, I am always interested in helping.
Once I talk to everyone, I will be saying more.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
1999-10-14 14:04 ` Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 18:05 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 1999-10-14 17:51 ` Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 19:35 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Clark C. Evans @ 1999-10-14 17:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>
Thanks Bruce, just thought that I'd put in
the suggestion. I'm sure with your experience
it will be a fantastic book!
;) Clark
On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> I am taking this on as a solo project.
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
1999-10-14 14:04 ` Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 18:05 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 17:51 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
@ 1999-10-14 19:35 ` Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 1999-10-14 19:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>; +Cc: PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>
>
> Thanks Bruce, just thought that I'd put in
> the suggestion. I'm sure with your experience
> it will be a fantastic book!
>
It was a good suggestion. I just don't think writing scales to many
people very well.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
1999-10-14 14:04 ` Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 18:05 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 1999-10-14 19:01 ` Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Clark C. Evans @ 1999-10-14 19:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>
Bruce,
On the slim chance that you may change your mind,
I've decided to address some of your points.
On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> Well, I don't think a "group-written" book is going to read very well.
You already started one. It hardly looks like a "solo"
project to me. There is _nothing_ saying that it has to be
design-by-committee.
In fact, I assumed that you would run the book as a
"dictatorship" where you keep complete artistic
control over every element... including the voice.
There is a ton other people can do... think:
"What can I delegate".
It will bring you amazing power -- you might end up owning only
40% of the book.... however, the book will be 1000% better
and sell thousands more copies.
> Everyone has a different style, and a mis-mash of writing
> styles in a book will not work.
Compare to: Everyone has a different style, a mis-match of
programming styles in a computer program will not work.
Answer: Modulize, design your book so that this will
be a non-issue. 1/2 of the book will be dreaming
up and presenting 'cool' examples. The little bit
of text that is in a personal voice can be re-written.
> It also will take too long to produce a book in that way.
Compare to: It will take too long to make a computer program that way.
Answer: Once the outline is made; and the project is broken
down into modules much of it can be done in parallel.
Debugging can also be done in parallel (as Eric Raymond
so clearly writes). So what if a complete re-write
is needed at the end: Plan to throw one away.
> The book will be available via the Web and in PDF format even before it
> is completed. (I am writing it using LyX/LaTeX). I have written the
> first two chapters, and will be putting them out for everyone to read
comment, debug, suggest improvements on, revise, help with,
> and use very soon.
Yes, I know. You want to leverage the collaborative PostgreSQL
community process when every possible. Amazing how well it works!
> This book project will clearly be a win for all
> PostgreSQL users, whether they buy the book or not.
This much is true, but it's not the issue.
> That doesn't mean I will not be including significant amount of our
> existing documentation. For example, I would probably include the
> 'manual' pages at the end of the book, like many computer books.
They are seveal hundred pages and will be a great
resource when writing the book -- they must have taken
hundreds of hours to generate. I doubt that they
would be all that useful verbadim at the end of the book.
> As far a money, let me mention something. While making $0 with
> PostgreSQL (I don't use it in my work, or even at home to store any
> data.), I have always offered to put money into the project because I
> think it is only fair that the costs be born fairly by the people
> involved. I have sent money to support our server, I have offered to
> send more in the past, and have offered to host the PostgreSQL Award
> around-the-world tour by including checks to pay for every leg of the
> trip. I have done other monetary gifts for PostgreSQL.
Yes, I know. Most committed free software developers are in a similar
boat and I wish there was a more equitable way of developing software
like PostgreSQL.
> So, if there need for some money for PostgreSQL, let me know. With or
> without the book, I am always interested in helping.
Bruce, I'm not questioning your integrety; if anything it should be
the other way around as I am not a significant contributor and
as an 'familar outsider' really don't have the right to question
your actions. Infact, I admire you a TON and that's why I'm
spending _my_ time authoring this e-mail.
...
Please understand. I'm suggesting an alternative way of doing
things; that maybye, just mabye could turn out to be bigger and
more useful than expected. Consider this as a "small project"
to see if the members of PostgreSQL community can deliver as
a cohesive unit; not as an individual.
If an accountable process like this were to work for a book --
then I would bet solid money that it would work for
application software development for profit. And this,
being able to generate a profit should be the goal that we
as a community should be striving for.
...
Imagine the book titled:
"PostgreSQL: The Definitive Guide, by Bruce Momjian"
Now imagine you going into Crysler corporation trying to
bid on a production control system. Do you think you
will get it with the Oracle representative right next to you?
Imagine instead the book titled:
"PostgreSQL: The Definitive Guide
A collaborative work by the PostgreSQL Community,
Edited by Bruce Momjian"
Put yourself back in the board room at Crysler with
Oracle sales person next to you. Do you think you
are in a better position? I think so. The first book
says you are a lone wolf. The second one shows
you are a leader. It also demonstrates all too clearly
that you an muster the entire PostgreSQL community
behind you, ready to deliver on your promises.
That is way powerful. Far more powerful than the
lone wolf approach chosen by Larry Wall.
...
So, you mentioned the $ word. Is this about $? Yes.
However, it is not about the immediate money nor about
your right to profit from PostgreSQL. It is about a
key juncture for the PostgreSQL community; we can either
fragment off as individuals... going Solo. Or,
we can develop a business model that lets us move
together as a community. Oracle isn't scared about
the first one. Its petrified about the second.
Best Wishes,
Clark
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
@ 1999-10-14 16:07 ` Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>
1999-10-14 18:14 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Henry B. Hotz @ 1999-10-14 16:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>; Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgresql.org>
At 7:04 AM -0700 10/14/99, Clark C. Evans wrote:
>Bruce,
>
>Were you going to do this as a "group" project or
>is it a "solo" venture?
>
>If its a group project, I assume you are the "owner"
>of the "uber-contract" until it sells to a book
>publisher. To do this right, you would divide
>this contract into small peices, or sub-contracts.
>Then, as people contribute, their time is tracked
>against these components. Right now, for instance,
>you have a book-outline project which people are
>working on; it could be decided that the book-outline
>sub contract is worth ".5%" of the book ownership.
>Then, as people track their time against these
>sub-contracts, a summary (once a week) is presented
>to you (the owner of the contract) for approval
>of their hours. If approved, then the contributer
The way this is normally done is to do a page or word count of the finished
product. Each author owns a "chapter". The editor negotiates with the
publisher and takes a cut off the top. Counting time is a bad idea IMHO.
Too much uncertainty and inequity.
Of course in this case there is a lot of pre-existing text which makes
counting pages hard. Is there any way we can make this whole thing owned
by postgresql.org and just use the proceeds for the project? I haven't
been tracking the legal status.
Signature failed Preliminary Design Review.
Feasibility of a new signature is currently being evaluated.
h.b.hotz@jpl.nasa.gov, or hbhotz@oxy.edu
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
1999-10-14 16:07 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>
@ 1999-10-14 18:14 ` Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 18:12 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 1999-10-14 18:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>; +Cc: Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>; PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgresql.org>
> >If its a group project, I assume you are the "owner"
> >of the "uber-contract" until it sells to a book
> >publisher. To do this right, you would divide
> >this contract into small peices, or sub-contracts.
> >Then, as people contribute, their time is tracked
> >against these components. Right now, for instance,
> >you have a book-outline project which people are
> >working on; it could be decided that the book-outline
> >sub contract is worth ".5%" of the book ownership.
> >Then, as people track their time against these
> >sub-contracts, a summary (once a week) is presented
> >to you (the owner of the contract) for approval
> >of their hours. If approved, then the contributer
>
> The way this is normally done is to do a page or word count of the finished
> product. Each author owns a "chapter". The editor negotiates with the
> publisher and takes a cut off the top. Counting time is a bad idea IMHO.
> Too much uncertainty and inequity.
>
> Of course in this case there is a lot of pre-existing text which makes
> counting pages hard. Is there any way we can make this whole thing owned
> by postgresql.org and just use the proceeds for the project? I haven't
> been tracking the legal status.
The first two chapters are Intro/History, like the one I wrote for the
BSD magazine, and chapter 2 is using psql, which is all new.
We really don't have much hand-holding stuff. Chapters 1-4 are going to
be all new. The later chapters may use some existing stuff.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
1999-10-14 16:07 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>
1999-10-14 18:14 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 1999-10-14 18:12 ` Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 19:34 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Clark C. Evans @ 1999-10-14 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>; PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgresql.org>
Well Henery, the collaborative book idea is dead.
But, here are my comments anyway. BTW, I didn't
get your e-mail... is there a "docs" list and not
a "pgsql-docs" list? If so, where are the archives?
On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Henery B. Hotz wrote:
> >Then, as people contribute, their time is tracked
> >against these components. Right now, for instance,
> >you have a book-outline project which people are
> >working on; it could be decided that the book-outline
> >sub contract is worth ".5%" of the book ownership.
> >Then, as people track their time against these
> >sub-contracts, a summary (once a week) is presented
> >to you (the owner of the contract) for approval
> >of their hours.
>
> The way this is normally done is to do a page or word count
> of the finished product. Each author owns a "chapter". The
> editor negotiates with the publisher and takes a cut off
> the top. Counting time is a bad idea IMHO.
> Too much uncertainty and inequity.
I don't believe this is the case at all. For two reasons:
1. When someone decides they want to contribute, their hours
can be multipled by a factor commensurate with their
relevant expeience. This multiplier can be wrong at first,
but as the project moves along, the owner of the contract will
have insentive to "promote" the multiplier for those who have
really demonstrated that they are valid contributors.
This will work out organically... besides most people will
be very honest and submit a multiplier commensurate with their
experience. The (nonexistent?) few that don't will be quickly
identified... it really isn't all that hard.
2. If someone logs a ton of hours and tries to get them approved,
the contract owner would have a good laugh and simply deny the
hours. I doubt this would happen in reality; in fact you might
have the opposite problem -- people not turning in an adequate
reflection of the time they have spent.
As for counting words or basing it on chapters -- this really limits
the ability of the vast number of contributers to feel like they
are a part of the process. A tiny, but juicy kernel of wisdom is
worth a ton.
Pity nobody want's to do it. Oh well. We all have such
little faith in other people. Damn shame.
Clark
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
1999-10-14 16:07 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>
1999-10-14 18:14 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 18:12 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
@ 1999-10-14 19:34 ` Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 19:47 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 1999-10-14 19:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>; +Cc: Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>; PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>
> 2. If someone logs a ton of hours and tries to get them approved,
> the contract owner would have a good laugh and simply deny the
> hours. I doubt this would happen in reality; in fact you might
> have the opposite problem -- people not turning in an adequate
> reflection of the time they have spent.
>
> As for counting words or basing it on chapters -- this really limits
> the ability of the vast number of contributers to feel like they
> are a part of the process. A tiny, but juicy kernel of wisdom is
> worth a ton.
>
> Pity nobody want's to do it. Oh well. We all have such
> little faith in other people. Damn shame.
I guess I figured that if we were going to do a collaborative book, we
would have done that with our documentation already. But in fact, it
usually takes one person and lots of time. In our current Doc's case,
it is Thomas.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
1999-10-14 16:07 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>
1999-10-14 18:14 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 18:12 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 19:34 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 1999-10-14 19:47 ` Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 20:56 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Clark C. Evans @ 1999-10-14 19:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>; Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>; PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>
On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> I guess I figured that if we were going to do a collaborative book, we
> would have done that with our documentation already.
Seveal Reasons:
(a) we didn't have the goal to write a book for profit, (b) we didn't
have a business model, (c) we didn't have a leader.
Seems we have all three now:
(a) Lots of people seem to have latched on to the goal, and it is
apparant that there is significant demand. (b) The business model
is there, it may not be perfect, but we can nail that down once we
have experience. Everyone I've met in PostgreSQL is resonable;
the inital agreement will be loose, as the book progresses the
agreement can be tightened down as needed. (c) We have a *sweet*
leader, Bruce Momjian, he has proven to be on top of things -- a
man with not only great vision, but the drive to make things tick.
Are you ready to delegate?
Clark
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
1999-10-14 16:07 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>
1999-10-14 18:14 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 18:12 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 19:34 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 19:47 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
@ 1999-10-14 20:56 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
1999-10-14 20:23 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: The Hermit Hacker @ 1999-10-14 20:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>; PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>
On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Clark C. Evans wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > I guess I figured that if we were going to do a collaborative book, we
> > would have done that with our documentation already.
>
> Seveal Reasons:
>
> (a) we didn't have the goal to write a book for profit, (b) we didn't
> have a business model, (c) we didn't have a leader.
>
> Seems we have all three now:
>
> (a) Lots of people seem to have latched on to the goal, and it is
> apparant that there is significant demand. (b) The business model
> is there, it may not be perfect, but we can nail that down once we
> have experience. Everyone I've met in PostgreSQL is resonable;
> the inital agreement will be loose, as the book progresses the
> agreement can be tightened down as needed. (c) We have a *sweet*
> leader, Bruce Momjian, he has proven to be on top of things -- a
> man with not only great vision, but the drive to make things tick.
>
> Are you ready to delegate?
Delegate what? Bruce is doing this as a solo project, what would he need
to delegate? *confused look* Now, the way I see it, he *could* have gone
off and written the book withuot letting any of us know about it, and
wihtout asking any of us for input as to how we'd like to see it look...he
didn't.
IMHO, if you feel that you need to continue along this vein, please take
it offlist and with Bruce privately...if someone else wishes to put the
time, effort and "risk of maritial status" up on the block and work on a
collaborative effort, so be it...but I personally am getting a major
distaste in my mouth from watching you trying to pressure Bruce into a
direction that he has already stated no desire to go. If ppl don't like
that, fine...don't buy the book when its done. Personally, I know where
my book buying dollars are going when the time comes...
Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
1999-10-14 16:07 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>
1999-10-14 18:14 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 18:12 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 19:34 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 19:47 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 20:56 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
@ 1999-10-14 20:23 ` Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 21:42 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Clark C. Evans @ 1999-10-14 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>; +Cc: Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>; Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>; PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>
My apologies.
On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> IMHO, if you feel that you need to continue along this vein, please take
> it offlist and with Bruce privately...if someone else wishes to put the
> time, effort and "risk of maritial status" up on the block and work on a
> collaborative effort, so be it...but I personally am getting a major
> distaste in my mouth from watching you trying to pressure Bruce into a
> direction that he has already stated no desire to go. If ppl don't like
> that, fine...don't buy the book when its done. Personally, I know where
> my book buying dollars are going when the time comes...
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
1999-10-14 16:07 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>
1999-10-14 18:14 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 18:12 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 19:34 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 19:47 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 20:56 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
1999-10-14 20:23 ` Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book? Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
@ 1999-10-14 21:42 ` Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 1999-10-14 21:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>; +Cc: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>; Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>; PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>
>
> My apologies.
>
> On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> > IMHO, if you feel that you need to continue along this vein, please take
> > it offlist and with Bruce privately...if someone else wishes to put the
> > time, effort and "risk of maritial status" up on the block and work on a
> > collaborative effort, so be it...but I personally am getting a major
> > distaste in my mouth from watching you trying to pressure Bruce into a
> > direction that he has already stated no desire to go. If ppl don't like
> > that, fine...don't buy the book when its done. Personally, I know where
> > my book buying dollars are going when the time comes...
Thomas mentioned that I need to request more than 20 free copies from
the publisher. I will either get more for free, or pay for them myself
and have them delivered to the main devlopers.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1999-10-14 21:42 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
1999-10-14 14:04 ` Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 18:05 ` Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 17:51 ` Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 19:35 ` Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 19:01 ` Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 16:07 ` Henry B. Hotz <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>
1999-10-14 18:14 ` Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 18:12 ` Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 19:34 ` Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-14 19:47 ` Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 20:56 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
1999-10-14 20:23 ` Clark C. Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
1999-10-14 21:42 ` Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
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