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Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2024 10:50:18 +0200
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Subject: Re: DocBook 5.2
Cc: Thomas Schraitle <tom_schr@web.de>
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> I took another look at this issue, and found that no Red Hat distro is
> yet shipping DocBook 5.2; not even Fedora 40 which is bleeding edge.
> So I would have to obtain and manually install the relevant DTDs
> and style sheets, as would a lot of other contributors.  I'm less
> familiar with the Debian ecosystem but AFAICT they are shipping
> even older docbook packages than Red Hat.
>
> In short, making this conversion now would destroy most contributors'
> ability to build the docs at all.  Not to mention packagers, who
> generally don't have the option to use stuff not yet blessed by their
> distro.  Since we've lately been encouraging packagers to build the
> docs for themselves, that part is likely to be a pain point long
> after it stops being one for average contributors.
>
> I don't see how we can migrate to 5.2 until it becomes a lot more
> widespread in standard distros.
>
> 			regards, tom lane

For me it's understandable that Red Hat and others hesitate to integrate
DocBook into their distros. The DocBook people spread their results
across a lot of sites: docbook, oasis, sourceforge, github, cdn, ...
(DTD, XML-schema, Relax-NG; xslt1.0, xslt2.0, xslt3.0; with/without
namespace; ...) and even mix it with secondary literature in a less
transparent way. It's hard to understand which parts are the necessary
core of their product.

For the PG community I would like to raise the question: Do we need
DocBook in the distro of any operating system? In the past we developed
some stylesheets to adopt DocBook to our needs. They are part of PG's
distro and refer to the standard with statements like <xsl:import
href=3D"http://docbook.sourceforge.net/release/xsl/current/xxxx/docbook.xs=
l"/>.
With the migration to db5.x the links change to <xsl:import
href=3D"http://cdn.docbook.org/release/xsl/1.79.2/xxxx/docbook.xsl"/>.
Hence we don't need any additional local stylesheet outside of our own
distro. Concerning DTD/schema/relax-ng: In db5.2 there is no DTD nor a
XML-schema, for validation we need only the Relax-NG file 'docbook.rng'.
This file is available at
https://docs.oasis-open.org/docbook/docbook/v5.2/os/rng/docbook.rng
(during the conversion-process I used a local copy).

I assume we don't need any operating system distro of DocBook. Please
correct me, if I'm wrong.

=2D--
J. Purtz

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    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2019879.1725566465@sss.pgh.pa.us">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I took another look at this issue, and found that no Red Hat distro is
yet shipping DocBook 5.2; not even Fedora 40 which is bleeding edge.
So I would have to obtain and manually install the relevant DTDs
and style sheets, as would a lot of other contributors.  I'm less
familiar with the Debian ecosystem but AFAICT they are shipping
even older docbook packages than Red Hat.

In short, making this conversion now would destroy most contributors'
ability to build the docs at all.  Not to mention packagers, who
generally don't have the option to use stuff not yet blessed by their
distro.  Since we've lately been encouraging packagers to build the
docs for themselves, that part is likely to be a pain point long
after it stops being one for average contributors.

I don't see how we can migrate to 5.2 until it becomes a lot more
widespread in standard distros.

			regards, tom lane
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    For me it's understandable that Red Hat and others hesitate to
    integrate DocBook into their distros. The DocBook people spread
    their results across a lot of sites: docbook, oasis, sourceforge,
    github, cdn, ... (DTD, XML-schema, Relax-NG; xslt1.0, xslt2.0,
    xslt3.0; with/without namespace; ...) and even mix it with secondary
    literature in a less transparent way. It's hard to understand which
    parts are the necessary core of their product.<br>
    <br>
    For the PG community I would like to raise the question: Do we need
    DocBook in the distro of any operating system? In the past we
    developed some stylesheets to adopt DocBook to our needs. They are
    part of PG's distro and refer to the standard with statements like
    &lt;xsl:import
href=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://docbook.sourceforge.net/release/xsl/current/xxxx/docbook.xsl">"http://docbook.sourceforge.net/release/xsl/current/xxxx/docbook.xsl"</a>/&gt;.
    With the migration to db5.x the links change to &lt;xsl:import
    href=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://cdn.docbook.org/release/xsl/1.79.2/xxxx/docbook.xsl">"http://cdn.docbook.org/release/xsl/1.79.2/xxxx/docbook.xsl"</a>/&gt;.
    Hence we don't need any additional local stylesheet outside of our
    own distro. Concerning DTD/schema/relax-ng: In db5.2 there is no DTD
    nor a XML-schema, for validation we need only the Relax-NG file
    'docbook.rng'. This file is available at
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://docs.oasis-open.org/docbook/docbook/v5.2/os/rng/docbook.rng">https://docs.oasis-open.org/docbook/docbook/v5.2/os/rng/docbook.rng</a>
    (during the conversion-process I used a local copy).<br>
    <br>
    I assume we don't need any operating system distro of DocBook.
    Please correct me, if I'm wrong.<br>
    <br>
    ---<br>
    J. Purtz<br>
    <br>
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