Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nB0SV-0001kq-Kl for pgsql-docs@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 20:24:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nB0SU-0004rp-Ik for pgsql-docs@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 20:24:30 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nAxfg-0000PD-9I for pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 17:25:56 +0000 Received: from mail-io1-xd29.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d29]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nAxfd-0003FO-2Y for pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 17:25:55 +0000 Received: by mail-io1-xd29.google.com with SMTP id w7so11609301ioj.5 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 09:25:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=purestorage.com; s=google; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=Ere9TrmFYS3/uWWei2Jn8CHuooDHBxYjA825xo9dOt0=; b=ScRwmLOfa0dxs8ibl4fnkreMyA9E+MxOV7lGgeFfTCrboy28q6yEE//n9pM+5mx98l eFIw4EEq7ie/GvElQBpDdm3sPM0l/DAPtuU2LhISo9wBbr+AjoRCK6vkAbC+33JY2eE9 0zhO4b+I7kCD6dCBkA0+aal7fB8wD9AnaN/6c= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=Ere9TrmFYS3/uWWei2Jn8CHuooDHBxYjA825xo9dOt0=; b=zkuQpqUkDtQn8FlLVLdw98Io3VjiKnpMJ71ol8o+MtvhEvoNP+OrXwyTp3/qjnrWFJ +fuwEYDoFl89hAk5G+FhOZJpKIZT7hsUoFSm9Qqpf2MXAdsguYTVz/2IiykHMVrx7NxH Hcpn6UeHF3Xi6CSh59I13REyYtol02zmBgiSAb6lg5rRc1/VXe+pF6Up7CbVU577edmB e38tOKMCefD2m4/mD/yX+YhUdHAV/z9jjsVGHNh4L5PuFNe2Tqhn6wTFR5/EYhP+fZZW KQtip1WqQcDQqaItzYLOBJ3Dyfho53vPh3irehct9onHasM/AuZ5jm1Y2d+PDzZAng9p fGfQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530rWpCeu954I1v/bd4Oeiulr7/Zx/pgA9fIysZ/ywf06CB5Btae bH0dWms6zcDvJOXsX4OAlJ5KcA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwRxuVzAVOC5cQ8ja0f08xN6IeLXxJrObMmnDnBEf0DhHvWefdx1V5NAFrkl/x6N9ka/dvRhA== X-Received: by 2002:a02:cd03:: with SMTP id g3mr2215420jaq.41.1642785950898; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 09:25:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([136.226.51.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g7sm3197875ild.3.2022.01.21.09.25.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Jan 2022 09:25:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Srinivasa Meka (he/him/his)" Message-Id: <3817416E-AE43-4AB6-9F0F-A562ABC5E819@purestorage.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_85463A84-BE5C-4FD5-BC3C-342E1E6CEA84" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: Not clear sentence Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 12:25:48 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: Laurenz Albe , Pg Docs To: "David G. Johnston" References: <164270798253.24064.8812843538289515934@wrigleys.postgresql.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --Apple-Mail=_85463A84-BE5C-4FD5-BC3C-342E1E6CEA84 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks David for the explanation - balancing between TLDR and = simplistic. Those two sentences (from David) make easier to read and understand.=20 with regards, Srinivasa Meka (he) | DevOps Solutions Architect=20 smeka@purestorage.com =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > On Jan 21, 2022, at 10:05 AM, David G. Johnston = wrote: >=20 > On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 5:37 AM Laurenz Albe > wrote: > On Thu, 2022-01-20 at 19:46 +0000, PG Doc comments form wrote: > > Page: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/14/backup-dump.html = > > Description: > >=20 > > Text: This is necessary to fully backup the cluster if running the = pg_dump > > command on individual databases. > >=20 > > Please provide an explanation or re-write the same, thanks. >=20 > Hm, yes, that could be improved. Perhaps: >=20 > This is required for a full backup of the cluster that is performed > by pg_dump on the individual databases. >=20 >=20 > I don't see a problem with the existing wording. And as the OP hasn't = really described what is confusing them it is difficult to contemplate a = rewrite that would remove that confusion. >=20 > The sentence means that one must run pg_dumpall --globals-only (that = is what "this" is referring to without doubt) and add the result to = their backup (implied by the wording "necessary to fully backup"; this = data is missing...) if their backup routine consists of backing up = individual databases using the pg_dump command (exact wording). >=20 > If anything, whether one chooses to backup all databases in a cluster = individually using pg_dump is immaterial. Any single database backed up = using pg_dump is incomplete if it is restored into an empty cluster. = One must also restore the globals into that cluster first to produce a = valid restoration of that database. The existing wording implies as = much (and we rightly assume restoration into a freshly initialized = cluster) so still no word-smithing seems needed here. >=20 > But hopefully the OP is less confused now. >=20 > David J. --Apple-Mail=_85463A84-BE5C-4FD5-BC3C-342E1E6CEA84 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Thanks David for the explanation - balancing between TLDR and = simplistic.
Those two sentences (from David) make easier = to read and understand. 




with = regards,
Srinivasa Meka (he)   | = DevOps Solutions Architect 
=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D





On Jan 21, 2022, at 10:05 AM, David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 5:37 AM Laurenz Albe <laurenz.albe@cybertec.at> wrote:
On Thu, 2022-01-20 at 19:46 = +0000, PG Doc comments form wrote:
> Page: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/14/backup-dump.html
> Description:
> 
> Text: = This is necessary to fully backup the cluster if running the pg_dump
> command on individual databases.
> 
> Please = provide an explanation or re-write the same, thanks.

Hm, yes, that could be improved.  Perhaps:

  This is required for a full = backup of the cluster that is performed
  by pg_dump on the = individual databases.


I don't see a = problem with the existing wording.  And as the OP hasn't really = described what is confusing them it is difficult to contemplate a = rewrite that would remove that confusion.

The sentence means = that one must run pg_dumpall --globals-only (that is what "this" is = referring to without doubt) and add the result to their backup (implied = by the wording "necessary to fully backup"; this data is missing...) if = their backup routine consists of backing up individual databases using = the pg_dump command (exact wording).

If anything, whether one chooses to = backup all databases in a cluster individually using pg_dump is = immaterial.  Any single database backed up using pg_dump is = incomplete if it is restored into an empty cluster.  One must also = restore the globals into that cluster first to produce a valid = restoration of that database.  The existing wording implies as much = (and we rightly assume restoration into a freshly initialized cluster) = so still no word-smithing seems needed here.

But hopefully the = OP is less confused now.

David = J.

= --Apple-Mail=_85463A84-BE5C-4FD5-BC3C-342E1E6CEA84--