Received: from maia.hub.org (maia-3.hub.org [200.46.204.243]) by mail.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31E9DB5DBCD for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:35:52 -0300 (ADT) Received: from mail.postgresql.org ([200.46.204.86]) by maia.hub.org (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.243]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27735-03 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:35:45 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by mail.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BE88B5DBC6 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:35:45 -0300 (ADT) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (mail.highperformancepostgresql.com [71.179.240.8]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MCT7F-1QNZfV1sDh-0097qo; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:35:44 +0200 Message-ID: <4DF6203D.6010906@2ndQuadrant.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:35:41 -0400 From: Greg Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20110505 Icedove/3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pgsql-docs@postgresql.org Subject: Re: Documentation and explanatory diagrams References: <201106122144.p5CLiN801167@momjian.us> <1307972167.2862.518.camel@core2> In-Reply-To: <1307972167.2862.518.camel@core2> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080208030407010503010000" X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:lWoZzu/pds7XHnjATMJc+trD8H2Lsgpmq9+kc8u9ZQW WvFGJ6/FDAWAXbrwH4tQj6h4mOJjmmGmbdjRnzT/k4Kq7+7DX+ UfCFBm03XJeV8kj8+oX3n9cewJL6eXs1ftufdXaB4nooDKVELU XqS/XDUz66DO8b8JmoYxt06Pf38naYUhMvcJapcALrLJKK7XBB lRCsnpbPhnPLUtgH7pokONwOdt6Un7z0iJFYCagIJU= X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 tagged_above=-5 required=5 tests=BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001 X-Spam-Level: X-Archive-Number: 201106/33 X-Sequence-Number: 6807 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080208030407010503010000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 06/13/2011 09:36 AM, Rafael Martinez wrote: > It refers among other things to Inkscape [2]. This program generates SVG > diagrams and is not so difficult to use. One of the good things with > Inkscape is that it works with a standard format so we are not bound to > a specific program or non standard format. > I've been staying out of this discussion so far because I truly hate dia, and was waiting for others to decide against it too. Inkscape saving to SVG is a much more reasonable choice. I just created a drawing, saved it, then modified it a bit. The spurious diff from the GUI was quite small: three lines of junk with the filename change and some windowing metadata. And the new material added showed in a pretty readable diff as I would hope too. Original file and diff attached as samples. The main issue I've seen with SVG is that it doesn't render the same way in every program. The attached drawing1.svg shows up in Inkscape with a text box and the word "stuff" in the middle. But if I open it in the standard desktop viewer on my Linux system, "Eye of GNOME", or in OpenOffice Draw, it shows a black box where the text is supposed to be. (OpenOffice Draw can read some SVG files, but it can't save in that format. Improving OOO support for SVG on import and export is a high priority feature for the project though: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/SVG_Import_Filter , http://graphics.openoffice.org/svg/svg.htm ) I think that any SVG diagram might need to have QA that includes opening it in more than one program, to confirm the file isn't using a fuzzy feature in the standard that renders differently. Maybe we don't care, and the fact that it renders correctly in whatever tool is used to generate the docs is all that matters. But SVG is as good candidate for a storage format as we're likely to find. I've been trying to find an open replacement for the sort of diagrams I used to draw all the time in Visio in the late 90's, and tools like Inkscape using SVG have finally started to look good enough for me to consider using seriously in the last two years. OpenOffice completely sorting out their issues with the format is really the last blocker for my own purposes--it becomes much easier for me to justify making these when I can easily pull them in and out of presentation slides--but that may not be relevant to the community documentation efforts the way it is to my personal work. -- Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US greg@2ndQuadrant.com Baltimore, MD PostgreSQL Training, Services, and 24x7 Support www.2ndQuadrant.us --------------080208030407010503010000 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name="inkscape.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="inkscape.diff" --- drawing1.svg 2011-06-13 09:48:39.063194750 -0400 +++ drawing2.svg 2011-06-13 09:49:14.239174007 -0400 @@ -14,7 +14,7 @@ id="svg2" version="1.1" inkscape:version="0.47 r22583" - sodipodi:docname="New document 1"> + sodipodi:docname="drawing1.svg"> @@ -76,5 +76,22 @@ height="100" x="191.42857" y="269.50504" />stuff + id="flowPara2824">more stuff + second box + --------------080208030407010503010000 Content-Type: image/svg+xml; name="drawing1.svg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="drawing1.svg" PD94bWwgdmVyc2lvbj0iMS4wIiBlbmNvZGluZz0iVVRGLTgiIHN0YW5kYWxvbmU9Im5vIj8+ CjwhLS0gQ3JlYXRlZCB3aXRoIElua3NjYXBlIChodHRwOi8vd3d3Lmlua3NjYXBlLm9yZy8p IC0tPgoKPHN2ZwogICB4bWxuczpkYz0iaHR0cDovL3B1cmwub3JnL2RjL2VsZW1lbnRzLzEu MS8iCiAgIHhtbG5zOmNjPSJodHRwOi8vY3JlYXRpdmVjb21tb25zLm9yZy9ucyMiCiAgIHht bG5zOnJkZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMTk5OS8wMi8yMi1yZGYtc3ludGF4LW5zIyIK ICAgeG1sbnM6c3ZnPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LnczLm9yZy8yMDAwL3N2ZyIKICAgeG1sbnM9Imh0 dHA6Ly93d3cudzMub3JnLzIwMDAvc3ZnIgogICB4bWxuczpzb2RpcG9kaT0iaHR0cDovL3Nv ZGlwb2RpLnNvdXJjZWZvcmdlLm5ldC9EVEQvc29kaXBvZGktMC5kdGQiCiAgIHhtbG5zOmlu a3NjYXBlPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3Lmlua3NjYXBlLm9yZy9uYW1lc3BhY2VzL2lua3NjYXBlIgog ICB3aWR0aD0iNzQ0LjA5NDQ4ODE5IgogICBoZWlnaHQ9IjEwNTIuMzYyMjA0NyIKICAgaWQ9 InN2ZzIiCiAgIHZlcnNpb249IjEuMSIKICAgaW5rc2NhcGU6dmVyc2lvbj0iMC40NyByMjI1 ODMiCiAgIHNvZGlwb2RpOmRvY25hbWU9Ik5ldyBkb2N1bWVudCAxIj4KICA8ZGVmcwogICAg IGlkPSJkZWZzNCI+CiAgICA8aW5rc2NhcGU6cGVyc3BlY3RpdmUKICAgICAgIHNvZGlwb2Rp OnR5cGU9Imlua3NjYXBlOnBlcnNwM2QiCiAgICAgICBpbmtzY2FwZTp2cF94PSIwIDogNTI2 LjE4MTA5IDogMSIKICAgICAgIGlua3NjYXBlOnZwX3k9IjAgOiAxMDAwIDogMCIKICAgICAg IGlua3NjYXBlOnZwX3o9Ijc0NC4wOTQ0OCA6IDUyNi4xODEwOSA6IDEiCiAgICAgICBpbmtz Y2FwZTpwZXJzcDNkLW9yaWdpbj0iMzcyLjA0NzI0IDogMzUwLjc4NzM5IDogMSIKICAgICAg IGlkPSJwZXJzcGVjdGl2ZTEwIiAvPgogIDwvZGVmcz4KICA8c29kaXBvZGk6bmFtZWR2aWV3 CiAgICAgaWQ9ImJhc2UiCiAgICAgcGFnZWNvbG9yPSIjZmZmZmZmIgogICAgIGJvcmRlcmNv bG9yPSIjNjY2NjY2IgogICAgIGJvcmRlcm9wYWNpdHk9IjEuMCIKICAgICBpbmtzY2FwZTpw YWdlb3BhY2l0eT0iMC4wIgogICAgIGlua3NjYXBlOnBhZ2VzaGFkb3c9IjIiCiAgICAgaW5r c2NhcGU6em9vbT0iMC4zNSIKICAgICBpbmtzY2FwZTpjeD0iMzc1IgogICAgIGlua3NjYXBl OmN5PSI1MDguNTcxNDMiCiAgICAgaW5rc2NhcGU6ZG9jdW1lbnQtdW5pdHM9InB4IgogICAg IGlua3NjYXBlOmN1cnJlbnQtbGF5ZXI9ImxheWVyMSIKICAgICBzaG93Z3JpZD0iZmFsc2Ui CiAgICAgaW5rc2NhcGU6d2luZG93LXdpZHRoPSI5NjciCiAgICAgaW5rc2NhcGU6d2luZG93 LWhlaWdodD0iNjUxIgogICAgIGlua3NjYXBlOndpbmRvdy14PSIxNDAiCiAgICAgaW5rc2Nh cGU6d2luZG93LXk9IjEyMDIiCiAgICAgaW5rc2NhcGU6d2luZG93LW1heGltaXplZD0iMCIg Lz4KICA8bWV0YWRhdGEKICAgICBpZD0ibWV0YWRhdGE3Ij4KICAgIDxyZGY6UkRGPgogICAg ICA8Y2M6V29yawogICAgICAgICByZGY6YWJvdXQ9IiI+CiAgICAgICAgPGRjOmZvcm1hdD5p bWFnZS9zdmcreG1sPC9kYzpmb3JtYXQ+CiAgICAgICAgPGRjOnR5cGUKICAgICAgICAgICBy ZGY6cmVzb3VyY2U9Imh0dHA6Ly9wdXJsLm9yZy9kYy9kY21pdHlwZS9TdGlsbEltYWdlIiAv PgogICAgICAgIDxkYzp0aXRsZT48L2RjOnRpdGxlPgogICAgICA8L2NjOldvcms+CiAgICA8 L3JkZjpSREY+CiAgPC9tZXRhZGF0YT4KICA8ZwogICAgIGlua3NjYXBlOmxhYmVsPSJMYXll ciAxIgogICAgIGlua3NjYXBlOmdyb3VwbW9kZT0ibGF5ZXIiCiAgICAgaWQ9ImxheWVyMSI+ CiAgICA8cmVjdAogICAgICAgc3R5bGU9ImZpbGw6IzAwMDBmZjtmaWxsLXJ1bGU6ZXZlbm9k ZDtzdHJva2U6IzAwMDAwMDtzdHJva2Utd2lkdGg6MXB4O3N0cm9rZS1saW5lY2FwOmJ1dHQ7 c3Ryb2tlLWxpbmVqb2luOm1pdGVyO3N0cm9rZS1vcGFjaXR5OjEiCiAgICAgICBpZD0icmVj dDI4MTYiCiAgICAgICB3aWR0aD0iNTA4LjU3MTQ0IgogICAgICAgaGVpZ2h0PSIzMDIuODU3 MTUiCiAgICAgICB4PSIxMTEuNDI4NTciCiAgICAgICB5PSIxODkuNTA1MDQiIC8+CiAgICA8 Zmxvd1Jvb3QKICAgICAgIHhtbDpzcGFjZT0icHJlc2VydmUiCiAgICAgICBpZD0iZmxvd1Jv b3QyODE4IgogICAgICAgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZTo0MHB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFs O2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0Om5vcm1hbDtmaWxsOiMwMDAwMDA7ZmlsbC1vcGFjaXR5OjE7c3Ryb2tl Om5vbmU7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6Qml0c3RyZWFtIFZlcmEgU2FucyI+PGZsb3dSZWdpb24KICAg ICAgICAgaWQ9ImZsb3dSZWdpb24yODIwIj48cmVjdAogICAgICAgICAgIGlkPSJyZWN0Mjgy MiIKICAgICAgICAgICB3aWR0aD0iMzE3LjE0Mjg1IgogICAgICAgICAgIGhlaWdodD0iMTAw IgogICAgICAgICAgIHg9IjE5MS40Mjg1NyIKICAgICAgICAgICB5PSIyNjkuNTA1MDQiIC8+ PC9mbG93UmVnaW9uPjxmbG93UGFyYQogICAgICAgICBpZD0iZmxvd1BhcmEyODI0Ij5zdHVm ZjwvZmxvd1BhcmE+PC9mbG93Um9vdD4gIDwvZz4KPC9zdmc+Cg== --------------080208030407010503010000--