Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hTxqh-0003kL-A5 for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 24 May 2019 00:14:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hTxqf-00007a-SX for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Fri, 24 May 2019 00:14:13 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hTxqf-00005X-Gd for pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org; Fri, 24 May 2019 00:14:13 +0000 Received: from meldrar.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::31]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hTxqb-0008EK-AN for pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org; Fri, 24 May 2019 00:14:12 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=postgresql.org; s=20171124; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:References:Cc:To:From:Subject:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=PCO9jHumeie9RuHOZq2PFVyZuurZnHHsLy9ts00+ZZ4=; b=SY0ek5eX7mPilOgeCimNlyqn+F vjxRRTQc1EWj3lTjfoG53gHuPUnC3RqknFqr/J1uOSGw6O90g5TCQFecvSyVILz6U1/zYW2zDnyLQ 3DD4h0L5weqX1Y2gEpkyC1GVQPb20x+PZl+fpe/KcadYox/LuO49YYcxr/9YFUDfcoTDpBwx1NYHV yj8TLA1ZIfEA2mY+piREu2AYRzVzMmqY55lalmLfrnmJUg+O/t09p+3WKwO6FIsCF8LtW5+sWasvz PJD62GgtOSwVQ30pn0ZFm8jIlSaPQYnJNq7umGMVQ8qHDLVIAui3bsKy5vnDQA6tJoE+zJvMsQg/0 7bSOV/KQ==; Received: from [2600:380:1852:5649:c897:49f:5318:6a3] (helo=Ph33r-Retina.local) by meldrar.postgresql.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hTxqU-0005Dl-Jd; Fri, 24 May 2019 00:14:06 +0000 Subject: Re: initdb recommendations From: "Jonathan S. Katz" To: Peter Eisentraut , pgsql-hackers Cc: Noah Misch , Magnus Hagander References: <20190406180839.GA1921989@rfd.leadboat.com> <96389374-9454-d26d-6f79-7c7b15ec14bd@2ndquadrant.com> <81b36e8b-e27b-ab5d-c4f0-6493771bc0ee@postgresql.org> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jkatz@postgresql.org; keydata= mQINBFtShwABEAC7PNHDUOTYuifpUCk23KqfxdQQkn4nkoxOXRK0+rAj36FiwqGB4TJFuOVZ sDFAEiSlC8Jt4y5Cs7B5tetT8JNd2cs6zp/udMJJDz9d65O9PDpdlMgAmIiTzpLlSdx8FG56 DTksaDv1d8j3cTJPSE4/fWSxqzA7o3Y9UuL7atZPrzfImgpRKs0of7elIHwOa8GucjyhYqcR h60wFBJc2KXqQdDYRTZy43DSnY/0VNc0omiH355fustvpm+m5HjD3w7qZyfN3fpKJpnX1LCF f3MnPHaDGITIYGRCBXvf0UqUtD6OEVWPv2C2gyqWMIpWmZTOgDufltKyIByKBoS9x0PlFkij 04X3KODCngt+N8Ssc9OICc6QSxhjoP48PYPdmiTmkrGuf0LX084wj1xeo1NX7XxZK39F6dTJ DhsIiW0sNS0xMxQHLHG9VLbPjx3SANQBh6BuryPz5ZupW9/TIDmkvprtU/oXfKgtfYm3fxmk EctxbWrEPsFTFPyuMqQu6l+xyQv0s1VLZfjNWaua6H1/gGoIt6kRnn5qMXDVVpijuWkHbv7G ngaQMd258UrrOEHnnjzhQ7jxMWV9D+emxbAtlIxnYvCWlV4IwAQhEHfvudqYaIY3hNWrvQ6H GB2KXoTZYN9g5djm14/5nj1IU5zOcovkjJnKhoo9iStnpFF2cwARAQABtCdKb25hdGhhbiBT LiBLYXR6IDxqa2F0ekBwb3N0Z3Jlc3FsLm9yZz6JAlQEEwEIAD4CGwMFCQeGH4AFCwkIBwIG FQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQT6hLaVryv3miBkP/HxBJxynxxlJwUCW1KJJQAKCRDxBJxy nxxlJwjrD/kBgqsW4QpNpTFw7ifRokZV08CCX4huPBJQ91rrv+UEWlEcotFBHVkYyHnpzARl tcZxhJ9CbFxjniH9cOTty5T/O1yolbOHtZSW8Z8aWV6BVEbjMb+BFxSSLm7RnvJdzQbGCZq2 ZZvfVpB6z3EHYph4KDdVKvMFjoLskxmdS1DE0tE3zTxvoQsi24Q+HOS07kUjs6fsu/WICMfz mgO++AWG9Y0CvN0mm4TkujESzyKM9E5irD+leEMIcddl51Aa2c/VMfBXQbRmpHIgUFTmuHQD CnQih+9i3OJAksDg66SP8a7yiXv5mwvyDi1EfTGVKYR2j+pwyjwnC3oIbvDMmB3uTn2JIjnT iZKPVtAcAylXjubFltihQgNyuShdP4W+kBwZizhUFqUVL8Anx+KoytYmJPfMRFLGuK4obXKq a2ZS3k9KB+H+isOx2nFJOsc7V360Zp1DVaNmuiK10TT6QndShSPaqkJqFtCb6r92rZ9sZM/L 3vtCI4Rrl3Pt1MgtENXupS8gZpJnAYS0j5A1PAZ09r6ANoaeMHspF+5J5fOHeEvqphXr36mm a83Vl1t4orPb0+QmmijmlpseDU63M88Aw5p3c4qj7t8Qr2EZ5zrn7/sFn5wOfbs8Nymxafif QCnlV2vg9p0m7vSk/yLJ4PFZvs52FgqAGRCdRn0s2EC99bkCDQRbUocAARAAv8ho/toQ9DG3 j4f9h9n1aRHr2FlviN2Utpy6L8+dfDggO0geilmkGQOolZ2E60gGfye/kUtF9W3NByO4hxDR 9u6qbOXcdqnuA+cc68EfqlWFJrVtYFxt0h4ElWYOYnIezKthriWch/FY70FGrxs3z8UHOHq5 0wBW433eTvZm90WixBiXEt2v1DgW4Vr3ymfO7Aap/IYyPuE4JzgudAuAl0HKPyNEHWHG1dAb jX1RiCw9gknIDWQOF0B4UAaJctWGVcnZ3A2ULwNGMa1P9ZJlBWf1vcj01aiHMU0yQ7JjJiSp vfm9eM0uSLwRdDrJjyl5ZZqVumjdv2SMNQ8GvYRbEMys3GGDSt9zXgfCSUnPnJfYxjzBHRI6 x44Wfsx8S6hWxepOogCJJ/g67Bk9mY8YV4klWIXDJVOL5jnBC09DbsZG81JaE2QxB8Y7W36Z Mroi9XMxg3s805hQAQUvdG/poU8hN8BWdrnTm/+4eQQp7gDY1ePDmGM6bJC+OHOSnFtR/f+7 0zpKJ10cc7cBygGnl1yR3KjhFyAWUFvP4ZGziKCcpMwXZfe9PGuyA/YOubMphxIn3YsK2wrd faKZYX2GMZCZhMMcvx9IpQrxIJgU+VlwXu/O+Lk10VIPcxPJJwmpdI6HzcS8ZgG6IMcC444X XTuLaP8j2mgcMvYak3ScCykAEQEAAYkCPAQYAQgAJhYhBPqEtpWvK/eaIGQ/8fEEnHKfHGUn BQJbUocAAhsMBQkHhh+AAAoJEPEEnHKfHGUnReMP/RA2UhGQj+G4uBshkRLjpRysabdPqgQB dEBk6wYbio88Wg/2/hgY7UzmDDEwX3sZfQDcrI6+vIobI8uqstZID+WgAAa1JLfChMyVQnSy 0zfWMOABXscc5tGuvFRZvJklTissMFjXUwaREEKp4ZikTvJ/62MCjSdtrUhnPLvoTsHTKRKD ichE+b5A54alwsubTijw12O6N22r5IjZiiSZV0u7dsShyKw+7wCSax9fuBoE43NMYf+dnjMK nerAQYUcZWYMnk+EC8RaqYAxv6XZ2tKx1AkGGktwkQIBwrz9IlDSvJ3LWJ2UIIuLRTdngNgg GIL4zzuUa2F56FqskQIuYMaNETk6LYfalBDQ6TVLAcgCPQxp4k4i/PRsZ3lZ2ZhRHRYciOvm kp+I6EfHwllQpYrWs1thluBGqlJSVJgKl0IOFvKLsQ6KKfqzAwh6FxrO5qajp4viNIgtWoFw O5Bp0jgFTbH2OrMWIRfUdUCH1Djbuo65svhNj7FNsQVYzHDI+Nd1I/LOBoPc3UorRMF2M4JV kUR7skOHWUbPTSNUr7qc14NSMY3PKjGeVGAsBVHBPvmRx/Ss2tW/TpJWpxg4pmquFQSXuaYh Yf4FN8Sxy320pcr+FqN8AhZkYJcNY82OTtR5VEKRC/mYcyq61qXIKqngydn79bJjGxHipxyF FmEC Message-ID: <9f46f065-ca80-f637-8c5d-a9877bcd5eab@postgresql.org> Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 20:13:54 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <81b36e8b-e27b-ab5d-c4f0-6493771bc0ee@postgresql.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="iVmTei0zH6TLAqJy5W3CSSuV0COPBD37i" X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2600:380:1852:5649:c897:49f:5318:6a3 (failed) List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Precedence: bulk This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --iVmTei0zH6TLAqJy5W3CSSuV0COPBD37i Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PS5X33kCnQBaGuGCs1i7RAsUtB3zJooDt"; protected-headers="v1" From: "Jonathan S. Katz" To: Peter Eisentraut , pgsql-hackers Cc: Noah Misch , Magnus Hagander Message-ID: <9f46f065-ca80-f637-8c5d-a9877bcd5eab@postgresql.org> Subject: Re: initdb recommendations References: <20190406180839.GA1921989@rfd.leadboat.com> <96389374-9454-d26d-6f79-7c7b15ec14bd@2ndquadrant.com> <81b36e8b-e27b-ab5d-c4f0-6493771bc0ee@postgresql.org> In-Reply-To: <81b36e8b-e27b-ab5d-c4f0-6493771bc0ee@postgresql.org> --PS5X33kCnQBaGuGCs1i7RAsUtB3zJooDt Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D868946F6367A7BF3B863FC8" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D868946F6367A7BF3B863FC8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5/23/19 6:47 PM, Jonathan S. Katz wrote: > On 5/23/19 12:54 PM, Peter Eisentraut wrote: >> On 2019-04-06 20:08, Noah Misch wrote: >>>>> I think we should just change the defaults. There is a risk of war= ning >>>>> fatigue. initdb does warn about this, so anyone who cared could ha= ve >>>>> gotten the information. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I've been suggesting that for years, so definite strong +1 for doing= that. >>> >>> +1 >> >> To recap, the idea here was to change the default authentication metho= ds >> that initdb sets up, in place of "trust". >> >> I think the ideal scenario would be to use "peer" for local and some >> appropriate password method (being discussed elsewhere) for host. >=20 > +1. >=20 >> Looking through the buildfarm, I gather that the only platforms that >> don't support peer are Windows, AIX, and HP-UX. I think we can probab= ly >> figure out some fallback or alternative default for the latter two >> platforms without anyone noticing. But what should the defaults be on= >> Windows? It doesn't have local sockets, so the lack of peer wouldn't >> matter. But is it OK to default to a password method, or would that >> upset people particularly? >=20 > +1 for password method. Definitely better than trust :) Attached is v2 of the patch. For now I have left in the password based method to be scram-sha-256 as I am optimistic about the support across client drivers[1] (and FWIW I have an implementation for crystal-pg ~60% done). However, this probably means we would need to set the default password encryption guc to "scram-sha-256" which we're not ready to do yet, so it may be moot to leave it in. So, thinking out loud about that, we should probably use "md5" and once we decide to make the encryption method "scram-sha-256" by default, then we update the recommendation? Thanks, Jonathan --------------D868946F6367A7BF3B863FC8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; x-mac-type="0"; x-mac-creator="0"; name="0001-Add-a-warning-about-the-client-authentication-v2.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0="0001-Add-a-warning-about-the-client-authentication-v2.patch" RnJvbSBkNjEwZjRlNTc1YjZlZTYzNGI5NGRjNmNiOTEyNWM0ZGJhZWRjMzA1IE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiAiSm9uYXRoYW4gUy4gS2F0eiIgPGpvbmF0aGFuLmth dHpAZXhjb3ZlbnR1cmVzLmNvbT4KRGF0ZTogRnJpLCA1IEFwciAyMDE5IDEyOjAyOjQwIC0w NDAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0gQWRkIGEgd2FybmluZyBhYm91dCB0aGUgY2xpZW50IGF1 dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGRlZmF1bHRzIHRoYXQKIGluaXRkYiBwcm92aWRlcy4KClRoaXMgYWxz byBwcm92aWRlcyBhZHZpY2Ugb24gaG93IHRvIHNlY3VyZWx5IHNldCB1cCBpbml0aWFsIGNs aWVudCBjb25uZWN0aW9uCmNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb25zLCBhbmQgcmVtb3ZlcyB0aGUgc2VjdGlv biB0aGF0IGV4cGxhaW5zIHNpbWlsYXIgc3RlcHMgdGhhdCBpcwpiZWxvdyB0aGUgZGlyZWN0 b3J5IHNldHVwLiBUaGlzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHNob3VsZCBiZSBhcm91bmQgd2hlcmUgaXRz 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