Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WWjCx-0002oD-T8 for pgsql-docs@arkaria.postgresql.org; Sun, 06 Apr 2014 09:17:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with smtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WWjCx-00029N-8L for pgsql-docs@arkaria.postgresql.org; Sun, 06 Apr 2014 09:17:43 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:7903:4::125]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WWjCv-00029E-7X for pgsql-docs@postgresql.org; Sun, 06 Apr 2014 09:17:41 +0000 Received: from mail-oa0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22d]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WWjCr-0007bl-WB for pgsql-docs@postgresql.org; Sun, 06 Apr 2014 09:17:40 +0000 Received: by mail-oa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id eb12so5349176oac.4 for ; Sun, 06 Apr 2014 02:17:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=qv9i0WomNuKCzGRzes/VtI76tdYcXFq81ue9AWv1ook=; b=IE3xQD1kFB9Ds7RK8aZmexfDV7z2bimF2xgHC/Xg6L9R1n+PjTys/nnTlP0+2oWd5t m1ip2EpwPppj+GPVgEX6D3rib7lel9QEOrHkNGvVjjb1G68nggUxKu8tz0YfxLMQb102 x8rHcKtTFkDwrGhgIm76rR5dDl12EluOHbBjXDrtIpeut6yrjVPt8U7+c1J5cXFKrAES IRTcztJa23D/DS1nbU9D2cMuC3jiruhwnvVwCTxIqU7E1u4Pi8W1Qjpwl22YUP4NZlT/ JtCYDTaYLDLSEqRLaGaEeJ2CtxVd33dhNEGGvog3oKfnwh+aMHoBIH2EkNdxfl135COY cvgg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.247.68 with SMTP id yc4mr40569obc.67.1396775857189; Sun, 06 Apr 2014 02:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.9.226 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Apr 2014 02:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 13:17:37 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Installation tutorial should be much more simple for newbies From: Nikolay Samokhvalov To: PostgreSQL-documentation Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e015384d6cc7aff04f65c388d X-Pg-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) List-Archive: List-Help: List-ID: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Mailing-List: pgsql-docs Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-docs-owner@postgresql.org --089e015384d6cc7aff04f65c388d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi there. This is a question that I wanted to raise for a long time. For years, from many people I've heard *many* times that PostgreSQL docs are complicated for those who are just starting to use Postgres (or even databases in general). Recently, again, I had a couple of conversations with possible-Postgres-users who had complaints about current Postgres docs. We all love current docs for their good structure and clearness. But if you a noob, they will really hurt you. In this email I'll touch only one example =E2=80=93 installation. Let's check it: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/interactive/tutorial-install.html All one can briefly catch from this page is ..a link to Chapter 15. Installation from Source Code. It's 2014 but we still thinking that the major way to install is configure&&make&&make install, heh? But that's exactly what current documentation is saying to new users: > If you are installing PostgreSQL yourself, then refer to Chapter 15 for instructions on installation Like no other options exist. I am absolutely sure that newbie expects here something very simple. It should be apt-get install or yum install, etc. But all he can quickly find now in docs is frightening *short* version located at http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/interactive/install-short.html. Check it= . I SUGGEST: 1) to put very short lines of installation on most popular systems like Debian/Ubuntu, RedHat/CentOS, FreeBSD or MacOS or Windows right into the main tutorial page 2) to split the page "1.1. Installation" into two sections: a. how to get PostgreSQL binaries and b. how to install from source code, mentioning that the first way is better for start (and it really is -- for a new user), while the latter requires additional software (like gcc) to be installed on the system. I'm pretty sure that somebody with better English with me could write this much better than me, but if no one has time for it at the moment I could do it myself (expecting corrections afterwards). This issue is very important to the project since PostgreSQL usage continues to spread to wide range of users of various technical levels. It is one of our "bottle necks" in new user acquisition process. --089e015384d6cc7aff04f65c388d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi there.

This is a question that I wan= ted to raise for a long time.

For years, from many p= eople I've heard *many* times that PostgreSQL docs are complicated for = those who are just starting to use Postgres (or even databases in general).=

Recently, again, I had a couple of conversations with p= ossible-Postgres-users who had complaints about current Postgres docs.

We all love current docs for their good structure and = clearness.

But if you a noob, they will really hurt you.

In this email I'll touch only one example =E2=80=93 ins= tallation.


All one can briefly catch from this page is ..a link to= =C2=A0Chapter 15.=C2=A0Installation from Source Code.=C2=A0

<= /div>
It's 2014 but we still thinking =C2=A0that the major way to i= nstall is configure&&make&&make install, heh?=C2=A0
But that's exactly what current documentation is saying to new use= rs:
>=C2=A0If you are= installing=C2=A0Pos= tgreSQL=C2=A0yourself, then ref= er to=C2=A0Chapter 15=C2=A0for instructions on installation=

Like no other options exist.

I am absolutely sure that newbie expects here something= very simple. It should be apt-get install or yum install, etc. But all he = can quickly find now in docs is frightening *short* version located at=C2= =A0http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/interactive/install-short.html= . Check it.

I SUGGEST:
1) to put very short lines of inst= allation on most popular systems like Debian/Ubuntu, RedHat/CentOS, FreeBSD= or MacOS or Windows right into the main tutorial page
2) to spli= t the page "1.1. Installation" into two sections:=C2=A0
=C2=A0 a. how to get PostgreSQL binaries and=C2=A0
=C2=A0 b.= how to install from source code,=C2=A0
mentioning that the first= way is better for start (and it really is -- for a new user), while the la= tter requires additional software (like gcc) to be installed on the system.=

I'm pretty sure that somebody with better English w= ith me could write this much better than me, but if no one has time for it = at the moment I could do it myself (expecting corrections afterwards).

This issue is very important to the project since Postg= reSQL usage continues to spread to wide range of users of various technical= levels. It is one of our "bottle necks" in new user acquisition = process.
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