Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56])
	by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps
 (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
	(Exim 4.92)
	(envelope-from <pgsql-docs-owner+archive@lists.postgresql.org>)
	id 1nCutJ-00070w-OZ
	for pgsql-docs@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 02:52:05 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org)
	by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92)
	(envelope-from <pgsql-docs-owner+archive@lists.postgresql.org>)
	id 1nCutH-0000ND-Vo
	for pgsql-docs@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 02:52:03 +0000
Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29])
	by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
	(Exim 4.92)
	(envelope-from <bruce@momjian.us>)
	id 1nCutH-0000Mq-Ov
	for pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 02:52:03 +0000
Received: from momjian.us ([72.94.173.45])
	by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
	(Exim 4.92)
	(envelope-from <bruce@momjian.us>)
	id 1nCutD-0008MS-7L
	for pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 02:52:01 +0000
Received: from bruce by momjian.us with local (Exim 4.94.2)
	(envelope-from <bruce@momjian.us>)
	id 1nCut7-00A5vu-OH; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 21:51:53 -0500
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 21:51:53 -0500
From: Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Cc: Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@alvh.no-ip.org>,
	Dave Stewart <davs2rt@gmail.com>,
	"David G. Johnston" <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>,
	Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: Conventions
Message-ID: <YfIIySTYopod5t21@momjian.us>
References: <YfFuK5fHSAKUN5yV@momjian.us>
 <202201261701.rzej4dlxqyts@alvherre.pgsql>
 <YfHZ9Ecpiy/v1oPN@momjian.us>
 <2517650.1643250838@sss.pgh.pa.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="1AtuOmvMQTZqDRm7"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <2517650.1643250838@sss.pgh.pa.us>
List-Id: <pgsql-docs.lists.postgresql.org>
List-Help: <https://lists.postgresql.org/manage/>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.postgresql.org/manage/>
List-Post: <mailto:pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
List-Owner: <mailto:pgsql-docs-owner@lists.postgresql.org>
List-Archive: <https://www.postgresql.org/list/pgsql-docs>
Archived-At: 
 <https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/YfIIySTYopod5t21%40momjian.us>
Precedence: bulk


--1AtuOmvMQTZqDRm7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 09:33:58PM -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
> Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> writes:
> > OK, updated patch attached.  I don't think we even show TCL syntax
> > anywhere anymore, so I removed that text, rather than moving it.
> 
> I really don't care for this phrasing at all:
> 
> -     the body of a PL/Tcl function:
> +     the body of a PL/Tcl function (brackets (<literal>[</literal> and
> +     <literal>]</literal>) are represented here as question marks):
> 
> It's unclear whether you mean actual brackets or metasyntactic brackets;
> somebody who hasn't completely internalized the notion of brackets as
> indicating optional elements would be particularly likely to
> misunderstand.
> 
> I'd also suggest that wedging this into a parenthetic remark between a
> sentence and the example the sentence is talking about is awkward.
> 
> I'd suggest a separate para at some point before the first usage,
> along the lines of
> 
>    In this section, we follow the usual Tcl convention of using question
>    marks, rather than brackets, to indicate an optional element in a
>    syntax synopsis.

Oh, then I didn't understand it either.  I know Tcl uses brackets for
stuff so I thought there was some weird syntax that represented brackets
as something else.  Anyway, updated patch attached.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  If only the physical world exists, free will is an illusion.


--1AtuOmvMQTZqDRm7
Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="paren.diff"

diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/notation.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/notation.sgml
index bd1e8f629a..c3798d5f1b 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/notation.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/notation.sgml
@@ -6,12 +6,12 @@
  <para>
   The following conventions are used in the synopsis of a command:
   brackets (<literal>[</literal> and <literal>]</literal>) indicate
-  optional parts.  (In the synopsis of a Tcl command, question marks
-  (<literal>?</literal>) are used instead, as is usual in Tcl.)  Braces
+  optional parts.  Braces
   (<literal>{</literal> and <literal>}</literal>) and vertical lines
   (<literal>|</literal>) indicate that you must choose one
   alternative.  Dots (<literal>...</literal>) mean that the preceding element
-  can be repeated.
+  can be repeated.  All other symbols, including parentheses, should be
+  taken literally.
  </para>
 
  <para>
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/pltcl.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/pltcl.sgml
index 1759fc4498..9839e375ad 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/pltcl.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/pltcl.sgml
@@ -320,8 +320,10 @@ $$ LANGUAGE pltcl;
     <title>Database Access from PL/Tcl</title>
 
     <para>
-     The following commands are available to access the database from
-     the body of a PL/Tcl function:
+     In this section, we follow the usual Tcl convention of using question
+     marks, rather than brackets, to indicate an optional element in a
+     syntax synopsis.  The following commands are available to access
+     the database from the body of a PL/Tcl function:
 
     <variablelist>
 

--1AtuOmvMQTZqDRm7--