Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hph6Z-0005VC-2j for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:48:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hph6X-0004qx-U4 for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:48:25 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hph6W-0004qn-TV for pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:48:25 +0000 Received: from meldrar.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::31]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hph6T-0002gC-UP for pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:48:23 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=postgresql.org; s=20171124; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=dQgUXiQsEKVweTNc8h3V7tDiLtezcuf90e4Oo4guIuM=; b=MMkRXEF35RCDqg0XK9kvPJUZcD X48BR1fPFRG/83ndYJFKvky0aPchYTXhbPUL2GUyPLXkovkOGcXj7PKfK1rwceQW2Jh0kYh+/3vh9 N0M2mV2olhyCNXzM1J0UhUPAnSIIoxNYfS2Krg4qnr9P/rgPcg6SYT1925zqcwKgea+5LGxQCR9zm rg4CRFAnzQJ+GhG3+BmpGTjtlEXDxkosZ5oXKKfsk40AHtuOw2hhgh6qDMy7qerGcn+5rerZIAwfk PcGNKAA+2MHUKnQNhDWK/95dK0x3juUbWGSc+aYqBf11AaLTbdAnheuRWTlvx9nQa46rEUMG4AzG3 Ff1U187w==; Received: from pool-173-56-10-222.nycmny.fios.verizon.net ([173.56.10.222] helo=Ph33r-Retina.home) by meldrar.postgresql.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hph6P-0000iD-Oh; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:48:20 +0000 Subject: Re: initdb recommendations To: Andrew Dunstan , Tom Lane , Peter Eisentraut Cc: Andrew Dunstan , pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org References: <20190406180839.GA1921989@rfd.leadboat.com> <96389374-9454-d26d-6f79-7c7b15ec14bd@2ndquadrant.com> <91f8272f-117f-2a04-862b-871a7b86eeed@2ndquadrant.com> <7b6c4220-e5ef-2a13-18ad-af596c52b71a@2ndquadrant.com> <23654.1563804669@sss.pgh.pa.us> <7886.1563812705@sss.pgh.pa.us> <27724.1563813541@sss.pgh.pa.us> <12115.1563822921@sss.pgh.pa.us> <5abe622e-78e3-a82c-5f50-3b7295db7056@2ndQuadrant.com> From: "Jonathan S. Katz" Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jkatz@postgresql.org; keydata= mQINBFtShwABEAC7PNHDUOTYuifpUCk23KqfxdQQkn4nkoxOXRK0+rAj36FiwqGB4TJFuOVZ sDFAEiSlC8Jt4y5Cs7B5tetT8JNd2cs6zp/udMJJDz9d65O9PDpdlMgAmIiTzpLlSdx8FG56 DTksaDv1d8j3cTJPSE4/fWSxqzA7o3Y9UuL7atZPrzfImgpRKs0of7elIHwOa8GucjyhYqcR h60wFBJc2KXqQdDYRTZy43DSnY/0VNc0omiH355fustvpm+m5HjD3w7qZyfN3fpKJpnX1LCF f3MnPHaDGITIYGRCBXvf0UqUtD6OEVWPv2C2gyqWMIpWmZTOgDufltKyIByKBoS9x0PlFkij 04X3KODCngt+N8Ssc9OICc6QSxhjoP48PYPdmiTmkrGuf0LX084wj1xeo1NX7XxZK39F6dTJ DhsIiW0sNS0xMxQHLHG9VLbPjx3SANQBh6BuryPz5ZupW9/TIDmkvprtU/oXfKgtfYm3fxmk EctxbWrEPsFTFPyuMqQu6l+xyQv0s1VLZfjNWaua6H1/gGoIt6kRnn5qMXDVVpijuWkHbv7G ngaQMd258UrrOEHnnjzhQ7jxMWV9D+emxbAtlIxnYvCWlV4IwAQhEHfvudqYaIY3hNWrvQ6H GB2KXoTZYN9g5djm14/5nj1IU5zOcovkjJnKhoo9iStnpFF2cwARAQABtCdKb25hdGhhbiBT LiBLYXR6IDxqa2F0ekBwb3N0Z3Jlc3FsLm9yZz6JAlQEEwEIAD4CGwMFCQeGH4AFCwkIBwIG FQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQT6hLaVryv3miBkP/HxBJxynxxlJwUCW1KJJQAKCRDxBJxy nxxlJwjrD/kBgqsW4QpNpTFw7ifRokZV08CCX4huPBJQ91rrv+UEWlEcotFBHVkYyHnpzARl tcZxhJ9CbFxjniH9cOTty5T/O1yolbOHtZSW8Z8aWV6BVEbjMb+BFxSSLm7RnvJdzQbGCZq2 ZZvfVpB6z3EHYph4KDdVKvMFjoLskxmdS1DE0tE3zTxvoQsi24Q+HOS07kUjs6fsu/WICMfz mgO++AWG9Y0CvN0mm4TkujESzyKM9E5irD+leEMIcddl51Aa2c/VMfBXQbRmpHIgUFTmuHQD CnQih+9i3OJAksDg66SP8a7yiXv5mwvyDi1EfTGVKYR2j+pwyjwnC3oIbvDMmB3uTn2JIjnT iZKPVtAcAylXjubFltihQgNyuShdP4W+kBwZizhUFqUVL8Anx+KoytYmJPfMRFLGuK4obXKq a2ZS3k9KB+H+isOx2nFJOsc7V360Zp1DVaNmuiK10TT6QndShSPaqkJqFtCb6r92rZ9sZM/L 3vtCI4Rrl3Pt1MgtENXupS8gZpJnAYS0j5A1PAZ09r6ANoaeMHspF+5J5fOHeEvqphXr36mm a83Vl1t4orPb0+QmmijmlpseDU63M88Aw5p3c4qj7t8Qr2EZ5zrn7/sFn5wOfbs8Nymxafif QCnlV2vg9p0m7vSk/yLJ4PFZvs52FgqAGRCdRn0s2EC99bkCDQRbUocAARAAv8ho/toQ9DG3 j4f9h9n1aRHr2FlviN2Utpy6L8+dfDggO0geilmkGQOolZ2E60gGfye/kUtF9W3NByO4hxDR 9u6qbOXcdqnuA+cc68EfqlWFJrVtYFxt0h4ElWYOYnIezKthriWch/FY70FGrxs3z8UHOHq5 0wBW433eTvZm90WixBiXEt2v1DgW4Vr3ymfO7Aap/IYyPuE4JzgudAuAl0HKPyNEHWHG1dAb jX1RiCw9gknIDWQOF0B4UAaJctWGVcnZ3A2ULwNGMa1P9ZJlBWf1vcj01aiHMU0yQ7JjJiSp vfm9eM0uSLwRdDrJjyl5ZZqVumjdv2SMNQ8GvYRbEMys3GGDSt9zXgfCSUnPnJfYxjzBHRI6 x44Wfsx8S6hWxepOogCJJ/g67Bk9mY8YV4klWIXDJVOL5jnBC09DbsZG81JaE2QxB8Y7W36Z Mroi9XMxg3s805hQAQUvdG/poU8hN8BWdrnTm/+4eQQp7gDY1ePDmGM6bJC+OHOSnFtR/f+7 0zpKJ10cc7cBygGnl1yR3KjhFyAWUFvP4ZGziKCcpMwXZfe9PGuyA/YOubMphxIn3YsK2wrd faKZYX2GMZCZhMMcvx9IpQrxIJgU+VlwXu/O+Lk10VIPcxPJJwmpdI6HzcS8ZgG6IMcC444X XTuLaP8j2mgcMvYak3ScCykAEQEAAYkCPAQYAQgAJhYhBPqEtpWvK/eaIGQ/8fEEnHKfHGUn BQJbUocAAhsMBQkHhh+AAAoJEPEEnHKfHGUnReMP/RA2UhGQj+G4uBshkRLjpRysabdPqgQB dEBk6wYbio88Wg/2/hgY7UzmDDEwX3sZfQDcrI6+vIobI8uqstZID+WgAAa1JLfChMyVQnSy 0zfWMOABXscc5tGuvFRZvJklTissMFjXUwaREEKp4ZikTvJ/62MCjSdtrUhnPLvoTsHTKRKD ichE+b5A54alwsubTijw12O6N22r5IjZiiSZV0u7dsShyKw+7wCSax9fuBoE43NMYf+dnjMK nerAQYUcZWYMnk+EC8RaqYAxv6XZ2tKx1AkGGktwkQIBwrz9IlDSvJ3LWJ2UIIuLRTdngNgg GIL4zzuUa2F56FqskQIuYMaNETk6LYfalBDQ6TVLAcgCPQxp4k4i/PRsZ3lZ2ZhRHRYciOvm kp+I6EfHwllQpYrWs1thluBGqlJSVJgKl0IOFvKLsQ6KKfqzAwh6FxrO5qajp4viNIgtWoFw O5Bp0jgFTbH2OrMWIRfUdUCH1Djbuo65svhNj7FNsQVYzHDI+Nd1I/LOBoPc3UorRMF2M4JV kUR7skOHWUbPTSNUr7qc14NSMY3PKjGeVGAsBVHBPvmRx/Ss2tW/TpJWpxg4pmquFQSXuaYh Yf4FN8Sxy320pcr+FqN8AhZkYJcNY82OTtR5VEKRC/mYcyq61qXIKqngydn79bJjGxHipxyF FmEC Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:48:11 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5abe622e-78e3-a82c-5f50-3b7295db7056@2ndQuadrant.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LX4RlXik1Sfpc1d6pZNdmxSU7ynhk7xIa" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Precedence: bulk This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --LX4RlXik1Sfpc1d6pZNdmxSU7ynhk7xIa Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="zsHarTc8ysu74YFsf1HdpRfxPuLkTmZIg"; protected-headers="v1" From: "Jonathan S. Katz" To: Andrew Dunstan , Tom Lane , Peter Eisentraut Cc: Andrew Dunstan , pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: initdb recommendations References: <20190406180839.GA1921989@rfd.leadboat.com> <96389374-9454-d26d-6f79-7c7b15ec14bd@2ndquadrant.com> <91f8272f-117f-2a04-862b-871a7b86eeed@2ndquadrant.com> <7b6c4220-e5ef-2a13-18ad-af596c52b71a@2ndquadrant.com> <23654.1563804669@sss.pgh.pa.us> <7886.1563812705@sss.pgh.pa.us> <27724.1563813541@sss.pgh.pa.us> <12115.1563822921@sss.pgh.pa.us> <5abe622e-78e3-a82c-5f50-3b7295db7056@2ndQuadrant.com> In-Reply-To: <5abe622e-78e3-a82c-5f50-3b7295db7056@2ndQuadrant.com> --zsHarTc8ysu74YFsf1HdpRfxPuLkTmZIg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/22/19 3:20 PM, Andrew Dunstan wrote: >=20 > On 7/22/19 3:15 PM, Tom Lane wrote: >> >> Frankly, this episode makes me wonder whether changing the default is >> even a good idea at this point. People who care about security have >> already set up their processes to select a useful-to-them auth option,= >> while people who do not care are unlikely to be happy about having >> security rammed down their throats, especially if it results in the >> sort of push-ups we're looking at having to do in the buildfarm. >> I think this has effectively destroyed the argument that only >> trivial adjustments will be required. >=20 > There's a strong tendency these days to be secure by default, so I > understand the motivation. So perhaps to bring back the idea that spawned this thread[1], as an interim step, we provide some documented recommendations on how to set things up. The original patch has a warning box (and arguably defaulting to "trust" deserves a warning) but could be revised to be inline with the text. Jonathan [1] https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/bec17f0a-ddb1-8b95-5e69-368d9d0a339= 0%40postgresql.org --zsHarTc8ysu74YFsf1HdpRfxPuLkTmZIg-- --LX4RlXik1Sfpc1d6pZNdmxSU7ynhk7xIa Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE+oS2la8r95ogZD/x8QSccp8cZScFAl02PSsACgkQ8QSccp8c ZSeHHw//ROknRWQLx8ykRap4+Rmp7BXc3f49L5zK9pgwVXVAa76n/sV/RMsbySS8 SPz/IDO1NKRarqEVaqiTJlvDCNXpLhgGHvd4z7xYmgmmBNK6Uk5xf9gOj9MQAPZD P13obwzL5L7d9C2xyzi/6xbQLLUDWkvXZ07PcHsqbyegmBUsnrFZmvFcI30Gt3iX 6q0X4S3grXpMfW4GA/CGLqT78qrhJS6jJhz18LrZQAonhRrAM7nrjmUuWZeWTU+M FgCWWiJ3EOEFOCtNxIWeY0HmRtmODFl/bIYMAcpVSEAcWlBG9uMPFhm5ZEMCba1v frOBFUdvZ7egUOFtpykYo4nIT293Nj9AqyyNNESzbE8Bz/RPLwCfGZDZAOZgT7u7 lEBc0sNW0EWcsuPyABZk54Chz1D/y3L5CU/t4fMtgP+jst7CXSKRTpvJ404gqS7j /RdBi0c6daFrkZPScQdflU+1Re0NqzqskyBRCHVB0UaesbvYZt+2cXmXMubdiS+N tdxPRo98SYjLvrjEpBVh8dOSywxIcgPvUWMc+RE9zxyPVtlsao5/KuH4cznJOIzH LOewbTR9+Yr0jCH1aRXYzgSy1oi2TNQrhQ734r233XxvN809jTqseIaZ5dmh+/0u HGNUZtNPytBgpMuQP2mZ+tH5sh6DwmVUIf7DRB1vGSUF3oEc7Sk= =481N -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LX4RlXik1Sfpc1d6pZNdmxSU7ynhk7xIa--