Subject: Russian PostgreSQL community site

From: "Виктор Вислобоков" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 08:37:53 +0400

Hello All.

Would be help me to put Russian PostgreSQL community site URL to
http://www.postgresql.org/community/international page?
About half year ago, I opened http://postgresql.ru.net.
At this moment, we have ~ 300 registered users, forum and some documentation.
It is possible, this is not really large, but I hope we'll go up.
(Perhaps, anybody remembers my old resource at
http://www.linuxshare.ru/postgresql. Currently, it is redirected to
http://postgresql.ru.net).

With best wishes,
Victor Vislobokov
St. Peterburg, Russia

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From: Euler Taveira de Oliveira <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:04:59 -0300

> At this moment, we have ~ 300 registered users, forum and some documentation.
Cool. But this is the wrong list to talk about it. I'm redirecting you
for the right list (pgsql-advocacy). AFAIK, Nikolay was trying to
organize the russian community infrastructure some months ago [1]. May I
suggest talking to him for not duplicating effort while accomplishing
the same goal? It would be nice to add the russian community at [2].

[1] http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2008-05/msg00000.php
[2] http://www.postgresql.org/community/international

-- 
  Euler Taveira de Oliveira
  http://www.timbira.com/

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From: "Виктор Вислобоков" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 06:56:04 +0400

Unfortunately, conversations about Russian PostgreSQL community site
were starting long time ago (before Nikolay, some years ago).
But, I don't see something besides discussions. :(  (I'm sorry for such words)
May be, I don't know about some sites, but I not found some Russian
site about PostgreSQL at least with similar functionality as our site.
I would not come here asking if out site is not ALREADY exists.
I would not come here asking if some Russian site was already
presented at http://www.postgresql.org/community/international
I hold in high respect Nikolay, but at this moment, I don't see his
results in this direction.

> the same goal? It would be nice to add the russian community at [2].

With best wishes,
Victor Vislobokov
St.Peterburg, Russia

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From: "Nikolay Samokhvalov" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:23:28 +0400

> results in this direction.

Victor,

if one cannot find any "community site", this does not mean that
community does not exist or not working.

Starting from 2007, here in Russia the solid group of PostgreSQL
experts (including all well-known Russian PostgreSQL developers) and
users was organized and started to act. Most of them live in Moscow,
but we have people from Krasnodar, St. Peterburg, Novosibirsk, Paris,
etc. The group is growing and does more and more activity such as
PostgreSQL-related talks at Russian and international conferences and
corresponging meetings at these conferences, community meetings,
online meetings, etc. Currently, you can find some information here:
http://postgresmen.ru (alternatively, you can try to search on such
sites as opennet.ru, linux.org.ru, etc). The community site is under
construction still, and surely this is an issue, but it doesn't stop
people from different organizations to work on promoting PostgreSQL in
Russia, to communicate and to work together.

I suggest you to cooperate, let's discuss how to organize our efforts
in Russian mailing list or privately.

P.S. Please do not use -docs list for discussing advocacy issues,
there is a special -advocacy list.

-- 
Best regards,
Nikolay Samokvalov

---

From: "Виктор Вислобоков" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:20:54 +0400

Hello Nikolay.

> community does not exist or not working.
It is true, but read below.

> Starting from 2007, here in Russia the solid group of PostgreSQL
Nikolay, it is really interesting, but where is group's site?
Where is group's forum?
What are problems solving the group at this moment?
I have no such info.
Try to search "PostgreSQL документация" at Yandex or Google.
Go to http://www.postgresql.org/community/international
There are you? I don't see. Many and many people didn't see too.

> Currently, you can find some information here:
> sites as opennet.ru, linux.org.ru, etc).
Postgresmen site is a commercial company site for business not for community.
linux.org.ru is news site with stupid threads about this news
opennet.ru is a good cooking book with good search, but nothing more

> The community site is under
Under construction starting from 2007? :) It is great!

> Russia, to communicate and to work together.
Yes, it's true. But in my mind, this communication into little closed world.
I appreciate efforts of Russian PostgreSQL developers, but with great
disappointment I see that Russian PostgreSQL community is greatly inferior to
MySQL community and many other. We have no Russian manual, we have
no well-known community site, we have no big well-known forum etc.

> in Russian mailing list or privately.
Nikolay, how many times we'll be talking? May be, we must already DO
something in this direction? I MADE first steps. What you answer?

With best wishes,
Victor Vislobokov
St.Peterburg, Russia

---

From: "Nikolay Samokhvalov" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:18 +0400

Victor, please use proper list for discussing advocacy issues:
[email-masked].

> Nikolay, it is really interesting, but where is group's site?

Currently most of us use forum at sql.ru to discuss technical
questions. Check it out, it has a good bunch of questions and answers.
Our colleagues also visit it from time to time.

> What are problems solving the group at this moment?

Promoting PostgreSQL in Russian-speaking world, experience sharing,
etc -- anything that similar group of people and companies do in other
contries.

> There are you? I don't see. Many and many people didn't see too.

This is well-known problem, and unfortunately it's not really easy to
solve. I assume that you know that currently only French and Japanese
translation exist (for 8.3.x I mean) and it's really great work.
Recently we started a public project for making Russian translation:
http://translated.by/you/postgresql-8-3-3-documentation-iii-server-administration/trans/
Please feel free to participate (translated.by is good platform for
crowd-sourcing, so maybe we will be able to translate Postgres docs
together).

BTW, lack of _good_ and _up-to-date_ Russian translation for the
project is the common problem that most OSS are subjected to.
(including MySQL and PHP). I personally think that we'd better have
only major parts of PostgreSQL Docs and some tutorials in Russian,
because if one needs advanced stuff it's most likely that he already
knows English.

I understand your feelings. We all will win only if we cooperate and
properly coordinate our efforts.

> Postgresmen site is a commercial company site for business not for community.

It will be so in the future, but currently it is de facto the source
of PostgreSQL-in-Russia news and the place where PostgreSQL-reated
talk slides, articles, etc can be found.

> Under construction starting from 2007? :) It is great!

From Spring 2008, actually. Yes, not fast, but you know people like
having some rest during Summer -- so we've paused our community
meetings and plan to continue with September meeting (using FTS will
be the main topic of our meeting, but it may be changed, it will be
announced as usual a week or so before the event), and October meeting
(with special foreign guests, keep in touch and don't miss it ;-) ).

BTW, as I've said we have several participants from St. Peterburg --
and It'd be really great to organize a meeting there, can you help
with this? (let's discuss it privately if you can)

> no well-known community site, we have no big well-known forum etc.

I still do not understand why you think that community = manual.

The lack of community site is well-known issue and I hope we will
solve this soon. Again, I suggest to cooperate and work together. You
can help.

> something in this direction? I MADE first steps. What you answer?

Conference talks, tutorial and overview articles, real-world
communication, discussions with major developers and worldwide
community members -- all this are already good steps.

I hope we will continue developing and solve our problems (community
site is #1 by priority I think, as for docs, it's open question, let's
discuss).

Thank you for rising these questions. Nevertheless, I suggest to move
discussion in Russian-speaking area.

BTW, you can find PDFs with some slides and articles in mydocs at
scribd.com: http://www.scribd.com/people/view/2396615-nikolay-samokhvalov.
Also, we have video from several conferences and community meetings
that we hope to publish soon.

-- 
Best regards,
Nikolay Samokhvalov