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Message-ID: <f205bb120901090613l23d25f3bnf2f66a4f4879235e@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:13:02 -0200
From: "Emanuel Calvo Franco" <postgres.arg@gmail.com>
To: pgsql-docs <pgsql-docs@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: Current docs are too comlicated for new Postgre users;
	thoughts on improvement
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References: <e431ff4c0812250057u5e203fc6wa88c04887ec21b5e@mail.gmail.com>

2008/12/25 Nikolay Samokhvalov <samokhvalov@gmail.com>:
> Currently, Part III (Server Administration) starts with three chapters:
>  15. Installation Instructions
>  16. Installation on Windows
>  17. Operating System Environment
>
> Here in Russia we have a situation, when the number of Win32 users of
> Postgres is constantly increasing, so more and more questions like
> "I've tried to install Postgres, clicked next/next/ok/ok/finish in
> installation wizard, but it doesn't work / service cannot start / I
> cannot connect" appear.
>
> The problem is that we cannot just say "RTFM" them, because it's
> really hard to find (and in some cases even impossible) to find the
> proper part of docs. Why? The chapters 15 and 16 of the main docs are
> not about installation -- they are about building Postgres from
> sources. Currently, even for *nix DBA installation most frequently
> means really installation from RPM/.deb/bsd ports/etc, including
> creation of system user and running initdb.
>
> As for Windows users, I haven't meet at least one who needs to know
> how to build Postgres from sources under Windows! And really often I
> see that Windows users cannot continue after some silly errors with
> initdb process. Docs cannot help them -- they open Chapter 16, got
> stuck and go away. And only really experienced DBAs know, that initdb
> (one of the most important processes for newbies) is described in
> "17.2. Creating a Database Cluster", which is located under "17.
> Operating System Environment" in the main contents listing.
>

Here in Argentina is happenning the same thing.
In that way we create content in our site (arpug.com.ar) .
Wherever, there is a wiki, and there is a lot of that information on the web.
But, you are correct when you talk about troubleshooting problems
on windows and in the mailing list some people answer when a guy
have windows problems 'migrate to *nix'...

> I think that docs really need to be clarified, at least titles should
> be corrected. I'd rename chapter 15 to smth like 'Building from source
> code on *nix platforms", and 16th one to 'Building from source code on
> Windows' and chapter 17 (most important) to 'Creation and Initial
> configuration of database cluster' (maybe with some corrections of
> contents).
>
in the same site we expose tis howto because the only place that exist
is in the wiki

> Going further, I'd remove detailed building instructions from the
> beginning of Server Administration part (either to separate but single
> chapter or even to appendix) and describe in details how to install
> Postgres in different ways on different platforms, including:
>  - installation from RPM/deb/other packages;
>  - special attention to Windows users (how to install? what are common
> problems?) /* btw, I won't wonder if win32 version of Postgres is
> being downloaded more often than others */
>  - short version of installation from sources;
>  - initdb process;
>  - initial configuration on different platforms.
>
> I believe that this question is one of the most important when we are
> thinking how to grow user base.
>

I'm watching that the manual in pdf is growing and my poor computer cries
when i open 8.4devel manual.. i don't think when we arrive to 8.5...

> Thoughts?
>


> --
> Sincerely yours,
> Nikolay Samokhvalov
> Postgresmen LLC, http://postgresmen.ru
>
> --
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>


-- 
      Emanuel Calvo Franco
   ArPUG / AOSUG Member
 Postgresql Support & Admin