pg.ddx.io pgsql-general@postgresql.org mailing list archive
help / color / mirror / Atom feedLicense question
32+ messages / 21 participants
[nested] [flat]
* License question
@ 2005-10-04 14:49 Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>
2005-10-04 19:10 ` Re: License question Arthur Hoogervorst <arthur.hoogervorst@gmail.com>
2005-10-04 19:16 ` Re: License question Scott Marlowe <smarlowe@g2switchworks.com>
2005-10-04 19:19 ` Re: License question Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2005-10-04 19:44 ` Re: License question Stefan 'Kaishakunin' Schumacher <stefan@net-tex.de>
0 siblings, 4 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Aaron Smith @ 2005-10-04 14:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general
I did a quick search on the mailing list and didn’t really find my
answer, so I am posting it to this list…
I’d like to apologize for my lack in understanding all this license
stuff. I am not an open source developer, I am a commercial developer,
so this is the first time I have even looked to use open source software
at all.
We are a small company that develops specialized applications. We use a
development language that has its own shared file database (like
access). This is less than ideal in a lot of cases. We don’t really
charge for our software, we charge for the time we take to make the
software. Essentially, we have no product, we have a service. However,
we are a commercial for-profit entity. We have found our built in
database to be problematic and prone to index corruption. Plus the fact
when people ask us what we use, we get funny looks, and sometimes told
we can’t install that on their server because they have never heard of
it before.
We started to look at alternatives. One of those was the MSDE from
Microsoft. I started a conversion of a large customer only to find out
that we hit the 2 gig limit before it even got installed (converted
their current data). We started to look at prices of the full version of
SQL Server and the pricing is going to put it out of reach for some of
our customers. The larger ones will have no problem paying for it, but
most of our customers are small businesses that just can’t afford it. I
realize it’s a small price to pay, but you also have to realize that
with our development language, we have to charge our end users a per
user runtime fee (that gets paid to the company that makes our
development language) and a per user fee to connect to any database
other than the default (again, to the company that made our development
language). By the time we are done, a 25 user system has a per user cost
of over $5,000 for the database and the runtime fees. Then when you tack
on our fees for software modifications, this just put it out of reach
for the smaller customers. Also keep in mind; we are in process of
dumping our current language for VB.Net, simply because of these stupid
fees that our customers have to pay to the company that wrote our
development environment.
We are looking for alternatives that are reliable, fairly fast, and easy
to maintain. We immediately thought of MySQL, but the commercial
licenses have now gone to an annual subscription structure. The basic
version is fairly cheap, and very reasonable. However, the data
connector that we have to pay for to get MySQL access will cost our end
users $3500 for a 25 user system. On the other hand, we can use an ODBC
connector for $1,000, which puts it back into the somewhat affordable
range. Once it’s moved to VB.Net, all of these fees will be eliminated,
but that is pretty far off.
This brings me here. I have heard of PostGreSQL, so it’s not new to me.
But all this licensing is. And maybe you can help get some clarification
for the MySQL licensing too.
We will not be selling the database software. We may install it for
them, though. In fact, most of the time, we will be the ones to install
it, and we charge for that time. Our customers are very aware that we
did not write it, nor are we selling it. Even if they are to purchase
SQL Server, they are the ones to purchase it directly, not us. We
purchase the connectivity kits that we use to connect to the database,
and then pass that cost on to the customer. It is purchased in their
name with their information. We do not charge extra or tack on any fees.
We do it this way so that no screw ups are made… The connectivity kit is
the one that connects to the database; we connect to the connectivity
kit through our software.
Knowing all this, what do we need to purchase, what can we do and what
can’t we do? It’s hard getting a straight answer from anyone that is why
I am here. If we can’t do it, we won’t. If we can save our customers
some money while getting them really good options and software, we would
like to do that. But on the same token, we don’t to do anything unfair
or illegal.
Thank you for your time.
Aaron
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2005-10-04 14:49 License question Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>
@ 2005-10-04 19:10 ` Arthur Hoogervorst <arthur.hoogervorst@gmail.com>
3 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Arthur Hoogervorst @ 2005-10-04 19:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>; +Cc: pgsql-general
Hi,
If I'm not wrong, Postgres comes with a BSD license, which means that
it (literally) doesn't matter what you do with the sources or how you
link your applications to the Postgres libraries. Pervasive goes into
details here: http://www.pervasivepostgres.com/postgresql/mysql.asp.
Regards,
Arthur
On 10/4/05, Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net> wrote:
> I did a quick search on the mailing list and didn't really find my
> answer, so I am posting it to this list…
>
[cut]
> Knowing all this, what do we need to purchase, what can we do and what
> can't we do? It's hard getting a straight answer from anyone that is why
> I am here. If we can't do it, we won't. If we can save our customers
> some money while getting them really good options and software, we would
> like to do that. But on the same token, we don't to do anything unfair
> or illegal.
>
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
> Aaron
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
> choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
> match
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2005-10-04 14:49 License question Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>
@ 2005-10-04 19:16 ` Scott Marlowe <smarlowe@g2switchworks.com>
3 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Scott Marlowe @ 2005-10-04 19:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>; +Cc: pgsql-general
On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 09:49, Aaron Smith wrote:
SNIP
> We will not be selling the database software. We may install it for
> them, though. In fact, most of the time, we will be the ones to install
> it, and we charge for that time. Our customers are very aware that we
> did not write it, nor are we selling it. Even if they are to purchase
> SQL Server, they are the ones to purchase it directly, not us. We
> purchase the connectivity kits that we use to connect to the database,
> and then pass that cost on to the customer. It is purchased in their
> name with their information. We do not charge extra or tack on any fees.
> We do it this way so that no screw ups are made… The connectivity kit is
> the one that connects to the database; we connect to the connectivity
> kit through our software.
>
> Knowing all this, what do we need to purchase, what can we do and what
> can’t we do? It’s hard getting a straight answer from anyone that is why
> I am here. If we can’t do it, we won’t. If we can save our customers
> some money while getting them really good options and software, we would
> like to do that. But on the same token, we don’t to do anything unfair
> or illegal.
PostgreSQL is licensed under the BSD license, and, to quote Tom Lane and
a few other developers "You can do anything you want with it, just don't
sue us."
If you have a customer who would want to pay for a commercial version,
it is also available as such from several companies that provide their
own "flavor" of postgresql, usually wrapped up with extra utilities and
what not (i.e. mammoth replicator things like that). If you have a
customer that is comfortable installing software on their own,
PostgreSQL is quite easy to install.
You might also want to look at firebird SQL server, as it's also pretty
good, and has a feature set that is mostly the same as PostgreSQL, with
some areas for each database that are better than the other.
So, if you want to bundle it with your application, you can. Create a
CD with your app and postgresql on it, and use a silent install process
to put it on the machine, or let the user do all that if they prefer.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2005-10-04 14:49 License question Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>
@ 2005-10-04 19:19 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2005-10-04 19:16 ` Re: License question Arthur Hoogervorst <arthur.hoogervorst@gmail.com>
3 siblings, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2005-10-04 19:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>; +Cc: pgsql-general
> This brings me here. I have heard of PostGreSQL, so it’s not new to me.
> But all this licensing is. And maybe you can help get some clarification
> for the MySQL licensing too.
>
You can do anything you want with PostgreSQL. You can close source it,
you can sell it, you can rename it.
You just can't sue us if something goes wrong.
No charge.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
> We will not be selling the database software. We may install it for
> them, though. In fact, most of the time, we will be the ones to install
> it, and we charge for that time. Our customers are very aware that we
> did not write it, nor are we selling it. Even if they are to purchase
> SQL Server, they are the ones to purchase it directly, not us. We
> purchase the connectivity kits that we use to connect to the database,
> and then pass that cost on to the customer. It is purchased in their
> name with their information. We do not charge extra or tack on any fees.
> We do it this way so that no screw ups are made… The connectivity kit is
> the one that connects to the database; we connect to the connectivity
> kit through our software.
>
> Knowing all this, what do we need to purchase, what can we do and what
> can’t we do? It’s hard getting a straight answer from anyone that is why
> I am here. If we can’t do it, we won’t. If we can save our customers
> some money while getting them really good options and software, we would
> like to do that. But on the same token, we don’t to do anything unfair
> or illegal.
>
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
> Aaron
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
> choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
> match
--
Your PostgreSQL solutions company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Programming, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2005-10-04 14:49 License question Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>
2005-10-04 19:19 ` Re: License question Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
@ 2005-10-04 19:16 ` Arthur Hoogervorst <arthur.hoogervorst@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Arthur Hoogervorst @ 2005-10-04 19:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: jd@commandprompt.com; +Cc: pgsql-general
Hi,
>You can close source it, you can sell it, you can rename it.
Add to that: As long as you leave the copyrights notices alone...
Isn't that what the BSD license is particularly about? [but then, I
might be wrong there]
Regards,
Arthur
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2005-10-04 14:49 License question Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>
@ 2005-10-04 19:44 ` Stefan 'Kaishakunin' Schumacher <stefan@net-tex.de>
3 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Stefan 'Kaishakunin' Schumacher @ 2005-10-04 19:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>; +Cc: pgsql-general
Also sprach Aaron Smith (thespirit@smithcentral.net)
[License questions]
PostgreSQL is released under BSD License. This license say (informal,
IANAL) Do whatever you want with the code, but keep the author's
acknowledgements.
BSD licensed software is quite often incorporated into commercial
products, like FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD are used in Apple's Mac OS X,
OpenSSH in Cisco and Nokia products and so on.
However, PostgreSQL can't be bought, since it is no commercial product
like eg. MySQL or MS SQL Server. So get the source and do whatever you
want.
BTW: BSD license is not the only advantage of PostgreSQL, indeed it is
the world's most advanced database system and has a *lot* of technical
advantages other DBs are still dreaming of.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_license for a short summary of
the license. (Not that the original license only had 28 lines :-)
--
PGP FPR: CF74 D5F2 4871 3E5C FFFE 0130 11F4 C41E B3FB AE33
--
Der Geist des Kriegers sollte mit Beginn des Neujahrstages bis zum Ende
des Jahres vom Gedanken an seinen Tod beherrscht werden.
Daijouji Shigesuke in "Budo Shoshin Shuu"
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
@ 2005-10-04 19:18 Dann Corbit <DCorbit@connx.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Dann Corbit @ 2005-10-04 19:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>; pgsql-general
[snip]
> Knowing all this, what do we need to purchase, what can we do and what
> can't we do? It's hard getting a straight answer from anyone that is
why
> I am here. If we can't do it, we won't. If we can save our customers
> some money while getting them really good options and software, we
would
> like to do that. But on the same token, we don't to do anything unfair
> or illegal.
===================================================================
Here is the PostgreSQL license:
http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence
===================================================================
It says:
"PostgreSQL is released under the BSD license.
PostgreSQL Database Management System
(formerly known as Postgres, then as Postgres95)
Portions Copyright (c) 1996-2005, The PostgreSQL Global Development
Group
Portions Copyright (c) 1994, The Regents of the University of California
Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
documentation for any purpose, without fee, and without a written
agreement is hereby granted, provided that the above copyright notice
and this paragraph and the following two paragraphs appear in all
copies.
IN NO EVENT SHALL THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA BE LIABLE TO ANY PARTY
FOR DIRECT, INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES,
INCLUDING LOST PROFITS, ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE AND ITS
DOCUMENTATION, EVEN IF THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA HAS BEEN ADVISED OF
THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.
THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY WARRANTIES,
INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY
AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE SOFTWARE PROVIDED HEREUNDER IS
ON AN "AS IS" BASIS, AND THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA HAS NO OBLIGATIONS
TO PROVIDE MAINTENANCE, SUPPORT, UPDATES, ENHANCEMENTS, OR
MODIFICATIONS."
===================================================================
It means you have the following requirement (my description of it):
You tell people you used it.
===================================================================
There are no fees.
You can modify the software. You can keep your changes or contribute
them back (it is smart to contribute them back, because you get free
maintenance that way!)
Simply put, the BSD license is the most open, user and business
friendly, and flexible license in the world.
It is having your cake and eating it too.
You have stumbled upon the most feature rich, freely available
magnificent open source database on earth.
Congratulations!
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
@ 2005-10-04 19:27 Magnus Hagander <mha@sollentuna.net>
2005-10-04 20:38 ` Re: License question Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread
From: Magnus Hagander @ 2005-10-04 19:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>; pgsql-general
<snip>
> This brings me here. I have heard of PostGreSQL, so it's not
> new to me.
> But all this licensing is. And maybe you can help get some
> clarification for the MySQL licensing too.
>
> We will not be selling the database software. We may install
> it for them, though. In fact, most of the time, we will be
> the ones to install it, and we charge for that time. Our
> customers are very aware that we did not write it, nor are we
> selling it. Even if they are to purchase SQL Server, they are
> the ones to purchase it directly, not us. We purchase the
> connectivity kits that we use to connect to the database, and
> then pass that cost on to the customer. It is purchased in
> their name with their information. We do not charge extra or
> tack on any fees.
> We do it this way so that no screw ups are made... The
> connectivity kit is the one that connects to the database; we
> connect to the connectivity kit through our software.
>
> Knowing all this, what do we need to purchase, what can we do
> and what can't we do? It's hard getting a straight answer
> from anyone that is why I am here. If we can't do it, we
> won't. If we can save our customers some money while getting
> them really good options and software, we would like to do
> that. But on the same token, we don't to do anything unfair
> or illegal.
For the database, nothing. Even if you sell the db itself, you pay
nothing. It's as free as it gets, that's what the BSD license is. See
http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence - that's all there is to it.
You will need npgsql
(http://gborg.postgresql.org/project/npgsql/projdisplay.php) to connect
from .net, which is licensed LGPL. This means that you can link to it at
no charge, but if you make any modifications to it, you have to make
them opensource (LGPL also). But here too, there is nothing you need to
buy.
To connect with ODBC, you need the pg ODBC driver, which is also LGPL.
If you need technical expertise you don't have, you may want to sign a
support contract with a company for your systems, which will of course
cost money. but there is no licensing fee, and if you can deal with the
support issues in-house, there is no cost at all.
The difference with MySQL is that you either license it commercially
(and pay), or under GPL. GPL (unlike LGPL) requires you to license
*your* software as GPL as well.
//Magnus
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2005-10-04 19:27 Re: License question Magnus Hagander <mha@sollentuna.net>
@ 2005-10-04 20:38 ` Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>
2005-10-04 21:18 ` Re: License question Matthew Terenzio <matt@jobsforge.com>
2005-10-06 20:55 ` Re: License question Vivek Khera <vivek@khera.org>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Aaron Smith @ 2005-10-04 20:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general
I never imagined that I would get so many responses. Thanks for all the
great information! This really cleared it up for us. It looks like I
will take a good long look at postgresql and see how well I can make it
interface into our product. This was extremely good news for me... I had
thought we were completely sunk until we moved everything over to .Net.
Thanks again!
Aaron
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2005-10-04 19:27 Re: License question Magnus Hagander <mha@sollentuna.net>
2005-10-04 20:38 ` Re: License question Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>
@ 2005-10-04 21:18 ` Matthew Terenzio <matt@jobsforge.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Terenzio @ 2005-10-04 21:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general
> I had thought we were completely sunk until we moved everything over
> to .Net.
Insert microsoft wisecrack of your choice here : )
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2005-10-04 19:27 Re: License question Magnus Hagander <mha@sollentuna.net>
2005-10-04 20:38 ` Re: License question Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>
@ 2005-10-06 20:55 ` Vivek Khera <vivek@khera.org>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Vivek Khera @ 2005-10-06 20:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general
On Oct 4, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Aaron Smith wrote:
> I never imagined that I would get so many responses. Thanks for all
> the great information!
depending on the nature of your DB you may wish to investigate SQLite
as well. it is designed to be embedded into apps, not run as a
separate server, which us better suited to some uses.
SQLite is public domain, meaning there is not even a copyright
holder, so you can literally do whatever you want with it.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Fw: License question
@ 2005-10-04 20:04 Richard_D_Levine@raytheon.com
0 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Richard_D_Levine@raytheon.com @ 2005-10-04 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general
Aaron,
If you are new to free software, it is best to familiarize yourself with
the different types of licenses, and especially with the concept of
copyleft:
http://www.fsf.org/fsf/licensing
BSD, LGPL, and GPL are all very different animals, and representative of
many of the licenses used in FOSS. For the type of work you do, a GPL
license might be bad, because your clients pay you to develop software, and
then you have to tell them they must contribute their new software back to
the opensource community. BSD is probably better for your needs, and what
PostgreSQL uses.
----- Forwarded by Richard D Levine/US/Raytheon on 10/04/2005 02:57 PM
-----
pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org wrote on 10/04/2005 02:19:05 PM:
>
> > This brings me here. I have heard of PostGreSQL, so it’s not new to me.
> > But all this licensing is. And maybe you can help get some
clarification
> > for the MySQL licensing too.
> >
>
> You can do anything you want with PostgreSQL. You can close source it,
> you can sell it, you can rename it.
>
> You just can't sue us if something goes wrong.
>
> No charge.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Joshua D. Drake
>
>
>
>
> > We will not be selling the database software. We may install it for
> > them, though. In fact, most of the time, we will be the ones to install
> > it, and we charge for that time. Our customers are very aware that we
> > did not write it, nor are we selling it. Even if they are to purchase
> > SQL Server, they are the ones to purchase it directly, not us. We
> > purchase the connectivity kits that we use to connect to the database,
> > and then pass that cost on to the customer. It is purchased in their
> > name with their information. We do not charge extra or tack on any
fees.
> > We do it this way so that no screw ups are made… The connectivity kit
is
> > the one that connects to the database; we connect to the connectivity
> > kit through our software.
> >
> > Knowing all this, what do we need to purchase, what can we do and what
> > can’t we do? It’s hard getting a straight answer from anyone that is
why
> > I am here. If we can’t do it, we won’t. If we can save our customers
> > some money while getting them really good options and software, we
would
> > like to do that. But on the same token, we don’t to do anything unfair
> > or illegal.
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your time.
> >
> > Aaron
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of
broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
> > choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
> > match
> --
> Your PostgreSQL solutions company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.800.492.2240
> PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Programming, 24x7 support
> Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
> Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
@ 2005-10-06 21:17 Dann Corbit <DCorbit@connx.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Dann Corbit @ 2005-10-06 21:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Vivek Khera <vivek@khera.org>; pgsql-general
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-general-
> owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Vivek Khera
> Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:55 PM
> To: Postgres General
> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] License question
>
>
> On Oct 4, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Aaron Smith wrote:
>
> > I never imagined that I would get so many responses. Thanks for all
> > the great information!
>
> depending on the nature of your DB you may wish to investigate SQLite
> as well. it is designed to be embedded into apps, not run as a
> separate server, which us better suited to some uses.
>
> SQLite is public domain, meaning there is not even a copyright
> holder, so you can literally do whatever you want with it.
SQLite is also modeled after {a subset of} the PostgreSQL grammar. So
when you want to step up from a little baby database, you can step right
into PostgreSQL with minimal muss and fuss.
SQLite Grammar page:
http://www.sqlite.org/lang.html
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* License Question
@ 2018-05-30 18:04 Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>
2018-05-30 18:28 ` Re: License Question Daniele Varrazzo <daniele.varrazzo@gmail.com>
2018-05-31 07:22 ` Re: License Question Federico Di Gregorio <fog@dndg.it>
2018-05-31 15:25 ` Re: License Question Steve Crawford <scrawford@pinpointresearch.com>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Jamie Specter @ 2018-05-30 18:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general; psycopg@postgresql.org <psycopg@postgresql.org>
Hello -
Big fan of psycopg2!
I would love to use it in an Apache-licensed project but unfortunately,
LGPL licenses are not compatible with Apache 2.0.
See here for more info:
https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-x
Apache 2.0 explicitly states that we cannot distribute components under
prohibited licenses (which includes LGPL) and our group wants to use that
license.
Is there any chance the project can be dual-licensed with a permissive
option like MIT or BSD? (You could even say the permissive license is only
available if used in Apache 2.0 projects.) That will allow us to
incorporate your work into our project!
There are many permissive licenses (
https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-a) and even some weak
copy left licenses we could make work (
https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b).
Thanks for your consideration!
-Jamie
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License Question
2018-05-30 18:04 License Question Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>
@ 2018-05-30 18:28 ` Daniele Varrazzo <daniele.varrazzo@gmail.com>
2018-05-30 18:44 ` Re: License Question Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread
From: Daniele Varrazzo @ 2018-05-30 18:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>; +Cc: psycopg@postgresql.org <psycopg@postgresql.org>
On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 7:04 PM, Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would love to use it in an Apache-licensed project but unfortunately, LGPL
> licenses are not compatible with Apache 2.0.
>
> See here for more info:
> https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-x
Is this true? this page leads to
<http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html;, which says:
"""
This licensing incompatibility applies only when some Apache project
software becomes a derivative work of some GPLv3 software, because
then the Apache software would have to be distributed under GPLv3.
This would be incompatible with ASF's requirement that all Apache
software must be distributed under the Apache License 2.0.
"""
Is your work a "derivative" of psycopg, or it merely uses psycopg? If
you only want to use it you should be fine.
-- Daniele
P.S. certain Postgres mailing list don't tolerate cross-posting. I
don't know about pgsql-general, but I would avoid it anyway.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License Question
2018-05-30 18:04 License Question Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>
2018-05-30 18:28 ` Re: License Question Daniele Varrazzo <daniele.varrazzo@gmail.com>
@ 2018-05-30 18:44 ` Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>
2018-05-30 19:16 ` Re: License Question Daniele Varrazzo <daniele.varrazzo@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread
From: Jamie Specter @ 2018-05-30 18:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Daniele Varrazzo <daniele.varrazzo@gmail.com>; +Cc: psycopg@postgresql.org <psycopg@postgresql.org>
Great find, Daniele! That appears to be true for GPLv3 but not LGPLv3
which is included on the Category X list. (Have to love how complex
licenses can get!)
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License Question
2018-05-30 18:04 License Question Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>
2018-05-30 18:28 ` Re: License Question Daniele Varrazzo <daniele.varrazzo@gmail.com>
2018-05-30 18:44 ` Re: License Question Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>
@ 2018-05-30 19:16 ` Daniele Varrazzo <daniele.varrazzo@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Daniele Varrazzo @ 2018-05-30 19:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>; +Cc: psycopg@postgresql.org <psycopg@postgresql.org>
On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 7:44 PM, Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com> wrote:
> Great find, Daniele! That appears to be true for GPLv3 but not LGPLv3 which
> is included on the Category X list. (Have to love how complex licenses can
> get!)
>
> From the Apache FAQs:
>
> Apache takes a strong approach against distributing any components under
> prohibited licenses (i.e. Category X), which includes LGPL. Therefore, we
> cannot even use LGPL licenses open source in the project. This appears to
> be regardless of linking.
Using a Python module doesn't constitute linking in the LGPL sense
(IANAL, but read it often). So, in order to understand what we are
talking about: what is that your project does?
- It uses psycopg?
- It modifies psycopg?
- It redistributes psycopg?
In the first case, to the best of my knowledge, and with the hundreds
of proprietary or variously licensed projects which use psycopg, you
can just use psycopg, which is a library and doesn't enforce a license
on the programs using it.
In the second case, we do want whatever improvement you made to
psycopg to be available to any other psycopg user, thank you very much
for them, and the LGPL is a great license to enforce that.
All the above, furthermore, is about distribution, i.e. dumping the
psycopg source code into a directory of your program and shipping it
with the rest. Is that what you want? Because if a line in
`requirements.txt` is fine (pretty much the industry standard), or a
git submodule is fine, you can use that, which results in the user
going there on github or PyPI and downloading his psycopg copy and we
are all happy.
You can also consider changing your license to GPL, why not?
I'm just speaking for myself, however, not knowing what is your
project, not knowing why it supposedly need a change in psycopg
license, which has survived almost 20 years of multinationals lawyers
nitpicking on it, is not so much of an incentive to do so.
-- Daniele
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License Question
2018-05-30 18:04 License Question Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>
@ 2018-05-31 07:22 ` Federico Di Gregorio <fog@dndg.it>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Federico Di Gregorio @ 2018-05-31 07:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: psycopg@lists.postgresql.org
On 30/05/18 20:04, Jamie Specter wrote:
> Hello -
>
> Big fan of psycopg2!
>
> I would love to use it in an Apache-licensed project but unfortunately,
> LGPL licenses are not compatible with Apache 2.0.
[snip]
Hi Jamie,
first of all, changing a license is a big task. While there is still
only my name as the copyright holder (I was the original author after
all) I don't feel like it is possible to change the license without the
permission of at least all the major contributors to the project.
Also, as Daniele explained, we're pretty happy with the LGPL3.
To better understand your request:
1) By "Apache project" do you mean an official project of the Apache
Foundation or just a project released under the Apache license?
2) Can you provide a detailed description of your use case? Is it a
library, an application? What is/are its license(s)? Which langguages it
uses? Right now I don't see an use case that really NEEDS a different
license for psycopg.
federico
--
Federico Di Gregorio federico.digregorio@dndg.it
DNDG srl http://dndg.it
We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the
time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. -- D.E.Knuth
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License Question
2018-05-30 18:04 License Question Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>
@ 2018-05-31 15:25 ` Steve Crawford <scrawford@pinpointresearch.com>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Steve Crawford @ 2018-05-31 15:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>; +Cc: pgsql-general; psycopg@postgresql.org <psycopg@postgresql.org>
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 7:35 AM Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>
wrote:
> ...
> I would love to use it in an Apache-licensed project but unfortunately,
> LGPL licenses are not compatible with Apache 2.0.
>
> ...
> Is there any chance the project can be dual-licensed with a permissive
> option like MIT or BSD? ...
>
That is a question better suited for the psycopg2 developers:
http://initd.org/psycopg/
Cheers,
Steve
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* License question
@ 2024-11-22 05:40 prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-25 19:59 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-26 01:40 ` Re: License question Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@lists.simkin.ca>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: prashant sinha @ 2024-11-22 05:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Hello There,I am looking to install PostgreSQL on a Microsoft Azure cloud VM for a product I am developing for business purpose. Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.
Thanks,Prashant
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
@ 2024-11-25 19:59 ` Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-25 22:47 ` RE: License question Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com>
2024-11-26 06:04 ` Re: License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Christophe Pettus @ 2024-11-25 19:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>; +Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
> On Nov 21, 2024, at 21:40, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.
PostgreSQL itself is an open source project distributed under a very permissive license:
https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/
No payment is required to download and run it.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* RE: License question
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-25 19:59 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
@ 2024-11-25 22:47 ` Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com>
2024-11-25 23:52 ` Re: License question Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com>
2024-11-26 01:05 ` Re: License question Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com>
2024-11-26 01:42 ` Re: License question Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@lists.simkin.ca>
1 sibling, 3 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Clay Jackson (cjackson) @ 2024-11-25 22:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>; +Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org <pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org>
Christophe is spot on when it comes to the PostgreSQL software.
Not trying to be "snarky" or condescending, but there are some other considerations. "Open Source" or "Free" does not mean "without cost".
No matter where you decide to host the software, there will be storage, compute, and network costs, not only to support the software itself, but also the data you store.
With respect to the data, since you or your employer have decided to persistently store the data in a database, I would presume the data, and more importantly, access to that data, has value.
It seems from the original post that you've decided to pay someone (a cloud vendor) to "take care" of the storage, network, and compute "services". That's great!
But, what about that "non-licensed" software? Once you use that software to store and access your data, you have created a CONTINUING need for that software. What will it cost you or your employer if a "bug" in that software prevents access to, or worse yet, corrupts your data.
Are you willing to sign up for "maintaining" PostgreSQL in your environment, INCLUDING things like patching, finding and fixing bugs, upgrades, backup and recovery, and off-hours support? If you or your employer have any concerns about this, and IHMO, you should, you might want to consider a "licensed and supported" version of PostgreSQL. There are several out there, including EDB and others. Even the big cloud vendors have "support plans" for PostgreSQL.
Oh, and don't forget, a backup only as good as the last time you tested a restore.
Clay Jackson
Database Solutions Architect
clay.jackson@quest.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2024 11:59 AM
To: prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Subject: Re: License question
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not follow guidance, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
> On Nov 21, 2024, at 21:40, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.
PostgreSQL itself is an open source project distributed under a very permissive license:
https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/
No payment is required to download and run it.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-25 19:59 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-25 22:47 ` RE: License question Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com>
@ 2024-11-25 23:52 ` Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Adrian Klaver @ 2024-11-25 23:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com>; Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>; +Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org <pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org>
On 11/25/24 14:47, Clay Jackson (cjackson) wrote:
> Christophe is spot on when it comes to the PostgreSQL software.
>
> Not trying to be "snarky" or condescending, but there are some other considerations. "Open Source" or "Free" does not mean "without cost".
>
> No matter where you decide to host the software, there will be storage, compute, and network costs, not only to support the software itself, but also the data you store.
>
> With respect to the data, since you or your employer have decided to persistently store the data in a database, I would presume the data, and more importantly, access to that data, has value.
>
> It seems from the original post that you've decided to pay someone (a cloud vendor) to "take care" of the storage, network, and compute "services". That's great!
>
> But, what about that "non-licensed" software? Once you use that software to store and access your data, you have created a CONTINUING need for that software. What will it cost you or your employer if a "bug" in that software prevents access to, or worse yet, corrupts your data.
1) It is not "non-licensed", it is permissively licensed.
2) Not sure what the point of '... CONTINUING need for that software'
is? If you have a process that depends on something to run then you have
established a need. If you don't want that then don't start any project.
>
> Are you willing to sign up for "maintaining" PostgreSQL in your environment, INCLUDING things like patching, finding and fixing bugs, upgrades, backup and recovery, and off-hours support? If you or your employer have any concerns about this, and IHMO, you should, you might want to consider a "licensed and supported" version of PostgreSQL. There are several out there, including EDB and others. Even the big cloud vendors have "support plans" for PostgreSQL.
That is done by the community as shown here:
https://www.postgresql.org/developer/
and here:
https://www.postgresql.org/support/
and here:
https://www.postgresql.org/support/versioning/
and here:
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/backup.html
As to off hours support look at the timestamps here:
https://www.postgresql.org/list/pgsql-general/
Now if you want a specific company to contact then yes there is this:
https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/
https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_hosting/
>
> Oh, and don't forget, a backup only as good as the last time you tested a restore.
>
> Clay Jackson
> Database Solutions Architect
> clay.jackson@quest.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2024 11:59 AM
> To: prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
> Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: License question
>
--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-25 19:59 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-25 22:47 ` RE: License question Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com>
@ 2024-11-26 01:05 ` Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com>
2024-11-26 01:20 ` RE: License question Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread
From: Ron Johnson @ 2024-11-26 01:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general
On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 5:47 PM Clay Jackson (cjackson) <
Clay.Jackson@quest.com> wrote:
[snip]
> Are you willing to sign up for "maintaining" PostgreSQL in your
> environment, INCLUDING things like patching, finding and fixing bugs,
> upgrades, backup and recovery, and off-hours support?
Azure's Postgresql managed database handles all that (except off-hours
support) for you, and there's much less off-hours support required (at
least there was with AWS RDS Postgresql, so pressuming so with Azure, too).
Of course, OP just mentioned an Azure VM, so he'd have to do all that
himself.
Using the Azure Postgresql managed database still means you'll have to
think about archiving data, and properly configuring PG (mainly autovacuum
parameters).
--
Death to <Redacted>, and butter sauce.
Don't boil me, I'm still alive.
<Redacted> lobster!
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* RE: License question
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-25 19:59 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-25 22:47 ` RE: License question Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com>
2024-11-26 01:05 ` Re: License question Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com>
@ 2024-11-26 01:20 ` Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Clay Jackson (cjackson) @ 2024-11-26 01:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com>; pgsql-general
Thanks, Ron! Exactly my points!
I do not want to “discount” the community in ANY way. In fact, I’m a huge fan of Open Source, as long as everyone, including “management”, is bought into community support concept.
I’ve seen the “wrong side” of “What do you mean, ‘You posted something to the list’? Why can’t you CALL someone (and/or get someone logged in) RIGHT NOW?” discussions, usually “in the heat of battle”, a few too many times.
Of course, the flip side of this is “Whew – the community solved this before the <large software support organization> even got back to me”.
It comes down to being “fully informed”.
Clay Jackson
Database Solutions Architect
From: Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2024 5:06 PM
To: pgsql-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: License question
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not follow guidance, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 5:47 PM Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com<mailto:Clay.Jackson@quest.com>> wrote:
[snip]
Are you willing to sign up for "maintaining" PostgreSQL in your environment, INCLUDING things like patching, finding and fixing bugs, upgrades, backup and recovery, and off-hours support?
Azure's Postgresql managed database handles all that (except off-hours support) for you, and there's much less off-hours support required (at least there was with AWS RDS Postgresql, so pressuming so with Azure, too).
Of course, OP just mentioned an Azure VM, so he'd have to do all that himself.
Using the Azure Postgresql managed database still means you'll have to think about archiving data, and properly configuring PG (mainly autovacuum parameters).
--
Death to <Redacted>, and butter sauce.
Don't boil me, I'm still alive.
<Redacted> lobster!
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-25 19:59 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-25 22:47 ` RE: License question Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com>
@ 2024-11-26 01:42 ` Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@lists.simkin.ca>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Alan Hodgson @ 2024-11-26 01:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
On Mon, 2024-11-25 at 22:47 +0000, Clay Jackson (cjackson) wrote:
>
> Are you willing to sign up for "maintaining" PostgreSQL in your
> environment, INCLUDING things like patching, finding and fixing
> bugs, upgrades, backup and recovery, and off-hours support?
>
Not sure what your point is, you have to do all that with commercial
software, too. And at least with open source you actually can find
and patch bugs yourself, in theory, although you certainly don't have
to, not with any major project.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-25 19:59 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
@ 2024-11-26 06:04 ` prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-26 06:12 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-26 16:49 ` Re: License question Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: prashant sinha @ 2024-11-26 06:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>; +Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Hi Christophe,Thank you so much for the response. One of my client is also requesting details of licensed version of PostgreSQL. Could you please guide me cost of PostgreSQL license which they want to get installed on their (client’s) on premise server. Not sure how pricing works for enterprise license which have all associated support for enterprise. Also not sure if we can install on any supported license for on-Prem server or we have to buy specific server recommended by PostgreSQL. Will appreciate your guidance here.
Thanks,Prashant
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Tuesday, November 26, 2024, 1:29 AM, Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com> wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2024, at 21:40, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.
PostgreSQL itself is an open source project distributed under a very permissive license:
https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/
No payment is required to download and run it.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-25 19:59 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-26 06:04 ` Re: License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
@ 2024-11-26 06:12 ` Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-26 06:46 ` Re: License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-26 16:45 ` Re: License question Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Christophe Pettus @ 2024-11-26 06:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>; +Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Hello,
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here about how PostgreSQL's licensing works.
You do not pay for the community version of PostgreSQL. The license specifically states it is available without a fee. It's free. No one collects money for the community version of PostgreSQL.
There's no "enterprise" version of PostgreSQL that is provided by the community. It's just PostgreSQL.
There are vendors which provide either commercial versions of PostgreSQL based on the community version, or which provide commercial support for PostgreSQL, but those are separate things from the PostgreSQL community version, and you would need to talk to the individual companies to find out what their arrangements are.
> On Nov 25, 2024, at 22:04, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>
> Hi Christophe,
> Thank you so much for the response. One of my client is also requesting details of licensed version of PostgreSQL. Could you please guide me cost of PostgreSQL license which they want to get installed on their (client’s) on premise server. Not sure how pricing works for enterprise license which have all associated support for enterprise. Also not sure if we can install on any supported license for on-Prem server or we have to buy specific server recommended by PostgreSQL. Will appreciate your guidance here.
>
> Thanks,
> Prashant
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> On Tuesday, November 26, 2024, 1:29 AM, Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com> wrote:
>
>
> > On Nov 21, 2024, at 21:40, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> > Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.
>
>
> PostgreSQL itself is an open source project distributed under a very permissive license:
>
> https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/
>
> No payment is required to download and run it.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-25 19:59 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-26 06:04 ` Re: License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-26 06:12 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
@ 2024-11-26 06:46 ` prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: prashant sinha @ 2024-11-26 06:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>; +Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Thank you Christophe I am very clear now. And post your email researched various vendors and will get in touch with them.
Thanks,Prashant
On Tuesday, November 26, 2024, 11:42 AM, Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com> wrote:
Hello,
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here about how PostgreSQL's licensing works.
You do not pay for the community version of PostgreSQL. The license specifically states it is available without a fee. It's free. No one collects money for the community version of PostgreSQL.
There's no "enterprise" version of PostgreSQL that is provided by the community. It's just PostgreSQL.
There are vendors which provide either commercial versions of PostgreSQL based on the community version, or which provide commercial support for PostgreSQL, but those are separate things from the PostgreSQL community version, and you would need to talk to the individual companies to find out what their arrangements are.
> On Nov 25, 2024, at 22:04, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>
> Hi Christophe,
> Thank you so much for the response. One of my client is also requesting details of licensed version of PostgreSQL. Could you please guide me cost of PostgreSQL license which they want to get installed on their (client’s) on premise server. Not sure how pricing works for enterprise license which have all associated support for enterprise. Also not sure if we can install on any supported license for on-Prem server or we have to buy specific server recommended by PostgreSQL. Will appreciate your guidance here.
>
> Thanks,
> Prashant
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> On Tuesday, November 26, 2024, 1:29 AM, Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com> wrote:
>
>
> > On Nov 21, 2024, at 21:40, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> > Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.
>
>
> PostgreSQL itself is an open source project distributed under a very permissive license:
>
> https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/
>
> No payment is required to download and run it.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-25 19:59 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-26 06:04 ` Re: License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-26 06:12 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
@ 2024-11-26 16:45 ` Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2024-11-26 16:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>; +Cc: prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>; pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 10:12:09PM -0800, Christophe Pettus wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here about how
> PostgreSQL's licensing works.
>
> You do not pay for the community version of PostgreSQL. The license
> specifically states it is available without a fee. It's free. No one
> collects money for the community version of PostgreSQL.
>
> There's no "enterprise" version of PostgreSQL that is provided by the
> community. It's just PostgreSQL.
>
> There are vendors which provide either commercial versions of
> PostgreSQL based on the community version, or which provide commercial
> support for PostgreSQL, but those are separate things from the
> PostgreSQL community version, and you would need to talk to the
> individual companies to find out what their arrangements are.
I have blogged about this confusion:
https://momjian.us/main/blogs/pgblog/2023.html#September_1_2023
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> https://momjian.us
EDB https://enterprisedb.com
When a patient asks the doctor, "Am I going to die?", he means
"Am I going to die soon?"
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-25 19:59 ` Re: License question Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-26 06:04 ` Re: License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
@ 2024-11-26 16:49 ` Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Adrian Klaver @ 2024-11-26 16:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>; Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>; +Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
On 11/25/24 22:04, prashant sinha wrote:
> Hi Christophe,
> Thank you so much for the response. One of my client is also requesting
> details of licensed version of PostgreSQL. Could you please guide me
They are all licensed, it comes down to what the license restrictions
are. The community edition essentially has no restrictions and is free.
Commercial forks will have restrictions and will cost.
> cost of PostgreSQL license which they want to get installed on their
> (client’s) on premise server. Not sure how pricing works for enterprise
> license which have all associated support for enterprise. Also not sure
> if we can install on any supported license for on-Prem server or we have
> to buy specific server recommended by PostgreSQL. Will appreciate your
> guidance here.
PostgreSQL is not a company. The PostgreSQL Global Development Group
the body that oversees it is a non-profit.
Per my previous post companies that deal with Postgres can be found here:
https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/
and here:
https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_hosting/
>
> Thanks,
> Prashant
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> <https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_Em...;
>
> On Tuesday, November 26, 2024, 1:29 AM, Christophe Pettus
> <xof@thebuild.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 21, 2024, at 21:40, prashant sinha
> <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in <mailto:prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>> wrote:
> > Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use
> without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and
> manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the
> available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy
> licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.
>
>
> PostgreSQL itself is an open source project distributed under a very
> permissive license:
>
> https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/
> <https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/;
>
> No payment is required to download and run it.
>
--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: License question
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
@ 2024-11-26 01:40 ` Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@lists.simkin.ca>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread
From: Alan Hodgson @ 2024-11-26 01:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
On Fri, 2024-11-22 at 05:40 +0000, prashant sinha wrote:
> Hello There,
> I am looking to install PostgreSQL on a Microsoft Azure cloud VM
> for a product I am developing for business purpose. Is there a free
> version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any
> licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database?
> Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site
> for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an
> appropriate related answer.
>
Open source PostgreSQL is and always has been free for any use.
If you're running it for real on Azure though, consider their managed
service. If it's half as good as Amazon's RDS, it's probably worth a
premium over the bare instance costs.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 32+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2024-11-26 16:49 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 32+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2005-10-04 14:49 License question Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>
2005-10-04 19:10 ` Arthur Hoogervorst <arthur.hoogervorst@gmail.com>
2005-10-04 19:16 ` Scott Marlowe <smarlowe@g2switchworks.com>
2005-10-04 19:19 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2005-10-04 19:16 ` Arthur Hoogervorst <arthur.hoogervorst@gmail.com>
2005-10-04 19:44 ` Stefan 'Kaishakunin' Schumacher <stefan@net-tex.de>
2005-10-04 19:18 Re: License question Dann Corbit <DCorbit@connx.com>
2005-10-04 19:27 Re: License question Magnus Hagander <mha@sollentuna.net>
2005-10-04 20:38 ` Aaron Smith <thespirit@smithcentral.net>
2005-10-04 21:18 ` Matthew Terenzio <matt@jobsforge.com>
2005-10-06 20:55 ` Vivek Khera <vivek@khera.org>
2005-10-04 20:04 Fw: License question Richard_D_Levine@raytheon.com
2005-10-06 21:17 Re: License question Dann Corbit <DCorbit@connx.com>
2018-05-30 18:04 License Question Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>
2018-05-30 18:28 ` Re: License Question Daniele Varrazzo <daniele.varrazzo@gmail.com>
2018-05-30 18:44 ` Re: License Question Jamie Specter <jamie.specter@gmail.com>
2018-05-30 19:16 ` Re: License Question Daniele Varrazzo <daniele.varrazzo@gmail.com>
2018-05-31 07:22 ` Re: License Question Federico Di Gregorio <fog@dndg.it>
2018-05-31 15:25 ` Re: License Question Steve Crawford <scrawford@pinpointresearch.com>
2024-11-22 05:40 License question prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-25 19:59 ` Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-25 22:47 ` Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com>
2024-11-25 23:52 ` Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com>
2024-11-26 01:05 ` Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com>
2024-11-26 01:20 ` Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com>
2024-11-26 01:42 ` Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@lists.simkin.ca>
2024-11-26 06:04 ` prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-26 06:12 ` Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
2024-11-26 06:46 ` prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
2024-11-26 16:45 ` Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
2024-11-26 16:49 ` Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com>
2024-11-26 01:40 ` Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@lists.simkin.ca>
This inbox is served by DDX for PostgreSQL; see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox