Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 18:02:57 -0400
From: Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net>
To: Justin Pryzby <pryzby@telsasoft.com>
Cc: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>, imai.yoshikazu@fujitsu.com,
	Euler Taveira <euler@timbira.com.br>,
	Andrew Gierth <andrew@tao11.riddles.org.uk>,
	PostgreSQL Hackers <pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: v12 and pg_restore -f-
Message-ID: <20191017220257.GR6962@tamriel.snowman.net>
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Greetings,

* Justin Pryzby (pryzby@telsasoft.com) wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:24:10PM +0200, Tom Lane wrote:
> > Alternatively, we could revoke the requirement to use "-f -" in 12,
> > and wait a couple releases before enforcing it.  The fundamental
> > problem here is that we tried to go from "-f - doesn't work" to
> > "you must use -f -" with no grace period where "-f - is optional".
> > In hindsight that was a bad idea.
>=20
> I'm going to make an argument in favour of keeping the enforcement of -f-=
 in
> v12.
>=20
> If there's no enforcement, I don't know if many people would naturally st=
art to
> use -f-, which means that tools which need to work across a wide range of
> (minor) versions may never confront this until it's enforced in v14/v15, =
at
> which point we probably end up revisiting the whole thing again.
>=20
> Failing pg_restore forces people to confront the new/different behavior. =
 If we
> defer failing for 2 years, it probably just means it'll be an issue again=
 2
> years from now.

Absolutely agreed on this- deferring the pain doesn't really change
things here.

> However, it's still an issue if (old) back branches (like 11.5) don't sup=
port
> -f-, and I think the differing behavior should be called out in the v12 r=
elease
> notes, as succinctly as possible.

I agree that we should call it out in the release notes, of course, and
that, in this case, it's alright to fix the '-f-' bug that exists in the
back branches as a bug and not something else.

> Also, I'm taking the opportunity to correct myself, before someone else d=
oes:
>=20
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 02:28:40PM -0500, Justin Pryzby wrote:
> > And vendors (something like pgadmin) will end up "having to" write to a=
 file
> > to be portable, or else check the full version, not just the major vers=
ion.
>=20
> I take back that part .. before v12, they'd get stdout by not specifying =
-f,
> and since 12.0 they'd get stdout with -f-.  No need to check the minor ve=
rsion,
> since the "need to" specify -f- wouldn't be backpatched, of course.

Ah, yes, that's true.

Thanks,

Stephen

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