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From: Thomas Munro <thomas.munro@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2024 13:13:10 +1200
Message-ID: <CA+hUKGLyfou2xa2fxGOs0WwkOrcKjwqn-bRNR01Hq5RAD16ueg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Windows installation problem at post-install step
To: =?UTF-8?B?RXJ0YW4gS8O8w6fDvGtvZ2x1?= <ertan.kucukoglu@gmail.com>
Cc: Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com>, pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org, 
	Sandeep Thakkar <sandeep.thakkar@enterprisedb.com>
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On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 11:58=E2=80=AFAM Ertan K=C3=BC=C3=A7=C3=BCkoglu
<ertan.kucukoglu@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thomas Munro <thomas.munro@gmail.com>, 21 Tem 2024 Paz, 23:27 tarihinde =
=C5=9Funu yazd=C4=B1:
>> 2.  Some existing database clusters which had been installed with the
>> name "Turkish_Turkey.1254" became unstartable when the OS upgrade
>> renamed that locale to "Turkish_T=C3=BCrkiye.1254".  I'm trying to provi=
de
>> a pathway[2] to fix such systems in core PostgreSQL in the next minor
>> release.  Everyone affected probably already found another way but at
>> least next time a country is renamed this might help with the next
>> point too.
>
> I was also hit by that OS update.
> There is a Microsoft tool for creating a locale installer
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3D41158
> Using that tool and adding a second locale Turkish_Turkey.1254 (name befo=
re Microsoft update) in the OS can fix your broken PostgreSQL.
> I believe most people simply choose this path.
> There are also several blogs/articles written in Turkish about the proble=
m.

If that's easy and good enough then maybe I should abandon that
on-the-fly renaming patch and we should just do a little documentation
note...

>> 3.  I'd also like to teach initdb to use BCP47 names like "tr-TR"
>> instead of those names by default (ie if you don't specify a locale
>> name explicitly), and have proposed that before[3] but it hasn't gone
>> in due to lack of testing/reviews from Windows users.  It seems like
>> that doesn't matter much in practice to all the people using the
>> popular EDB installer, since it apparently takes control of picking
>> the locale and explicitly passes it in (and screws up the encoding as
>> we have now learned).
>
> If I am not mistaken BCP47 names are already used in Linux systems.
> Using them would make PostgreSQL use the same locale names across Linux a=
nd Windows systems.

Not exactly.  POSIX systems use
[language[_territory][.codeset][@modifier]], but POSIX doesn't say
what any of those components are[1] (are they ISO country codes?
English words?  Hieroglyphs?), so, curiously, those Windows names like
"English_United States.1252" are probably POSIX-conforming.  Every
real POSIX system of course uses ISO language and country codes these
days (though I still recall other names being used years ago), so they
look similar to the simpler kinds of BCP47 tags, which are just
language-country with the same ISO codes but a different separator.
They diverge further once you get into the finer points with more
components.  Incidentally that lack of standardisation is the reason
you can't say that the glibc ".utf8" ending is "wrong", even though it
is obviously stupid :-p (all systems I know accept .UTF-8, 'cause
that's what Ken Thompson, Rob Pike and the Unicode standard called
it).  I suspect that Windows accepts the POSIX style en_US too, but
it's not what the manual tells you to use.

But really we shouldn't have to know or care how locales are named; we
should get the names from the OS in the first place, and then we
should remember them and give them back to the OS at the right times.
The two problems here is that Windows has two kinds, one unstable over
time and with illegal (for us) characters in the name, and one stable;
we need to find all the places where the old unstable ones can get
into our system, and block them off.  I'm aware of two places now: the
EDB installer, and initdb's default for people who run it on the
command line with giving an explicit name.

> I can help with the testing part. Let me know the details, please.

Thanks!  I will rebase that patch, and CC you on the thread.

[1] https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap08.htm=
l