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In-Reply-To: <aQYSAGEfd116_58N@momjian.us>
From: Kai Wagner <kai.wagner@percona.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2025 11:14:58 +0100
Message-ID: <CAG0qCNgV+Ra72vTvCoTZqn7KUUsXvp3N=ZUgACgMTDDPt8WTkA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Enquiry about TDE with PgSQL
To: Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
Cc: Chris Travers <chris.travers@gmail.com>, Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>, 
	"Clay Jackson (cjackson)" <Clay.Jackson@quest.com>, pgsql-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>, 
	Laurenz Albe <laurenz.albe@cybertec.at>, Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com>
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On Sat, Nov 1, 2025 at 2:58=E2=80=AFPM Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wro=
te:

> If you want to move forward with TDE without waiting to see if the
> temporary file compression patch will reduce the TDE code impact, you
> need to dig into how the community does feature calculus and how that
> calculus can be changed --- this is not something technology can fix.
>
I fully agree here, and as I stated above, I don't question this at all, as
this is the strength of the diverse and spread community. Looking at this
thread alone, and the multiple different "users" popping up, that see the
need and would like to see TDE in core or in an extension drives my
thinking as it makes sense to start thinking and looking into the temp file
compression already right now, if and how this could make our code changes
easier, or if additional extensibility should be directly part of the first
patch, so you can enable it through its extension. Either way, it should be
considered and kept in mind now, not after the fact, or we will continue to
spin this wheel. And this thinking and willingness alone, to actually be
open to that idea, requires some upfront discussion, so you at least know
you are welcome to work on it without wasting effort, because no one will
ever want to merge. (and yes, of course everyone can work on whatever they
want at any point in time, but people might prefer working on something
that actually benefits the project and is welcome, rather than ending in
>/dev/null)

Given your experience Bruce, can you offer us some advice on how you would
approach it currently? What do you think makes the most sense, and how
should we proceed with collaboration to at least see a small change in
making this happen in the future?

>
> Companies are willing to add the code weight because it is a sale for
> them, and customers are willing to pay to meet the check box --- that
> calculus just doesn't work in the community.
>
And this should always be at the forefront, as this makes the project
exactly as strong as it is today.

>
> --
>   Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>
> https://url.avanan.click/v2/r01/___https://momjian.us___.YXAzOnBlcmNvbmE6=
YTpnOmZhM2VjN2JlNjcyOTZmMGQwMjEzOGM1NWU5OTA5NzM0Ojc6ZDgxOTo3NzQ0MzQwZjhmODA=
4YmY1ZjFiZmFlMzdlNmE4MzUxYzc0NGU0NTIwMjA5YWU1Mjk2NjQ5YjFiZjk0NDI3MDNjOnA6VD=
pO
>   EDB
> https://url.avanan.click/v2/r01/___https://enterprisedb.com___.YXAzOnBlcm=
NvbmE6YTpnOmZhM2VjN2JlNjcyOTZmMGQwMjEzOGM1NWU5OTA5NzM0Ojc6MjZhZTplMDhhZWQ5N=
zg3YmVjODI4MDQ5YmU2ODc1MGExMTVmMmRmOTVlOTk2N2FmM2Y1N2VkN2VmYTZhYWMyZDQ1MzE3=
OnA6VDpO
>
>   Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Nov 1, 2025 at 2:58=E2=80=AFPM Br=
uce Momjian &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruce@momjian.us">bruce@momjian.us</a>&gt=
; wrote:</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">If you want to move forward with TDE =
without waiting to see if the<br>
temporary file compression patch will reduce the TDE code impact, you<br>
need to dig into how the community does feature calculus and how that<br>
calculus can be changed --- this is not something technology can fix.<br></=
blockquote><div>I fully agree here, and as I stated above, I don&#39;t ques=
tion this at all, as this is the strength of the diverse and spread communi=
ty. Looking at this thread alone, and the multiple different &quot;users&qu=
ot; popping up, that see the need and would like to see TDE in core or in a=
n extension drives my thinking as it makes sense to start thinking and look=
ing into the temp file compression already right now, if and how this could=
 make our code changes easier, or if additional extensibility should be dir=
ectly part of the first patch, so you can enable it through its extension.=
=C2=A0Either way, it should be considered and kept in mind now, not after t=
he fact, or we will continue to spin this wheel. And this thinking and will=
ingness alone, to actually be open to that idea, requires some upfront disc=
ussion, so you at least know you are welcome to work on it without wasting =
effort, because no one will ever want to merge. (and yes, of course everyon=
e can work on whatever they want at any point in time, but people might pre=
fer working on something that actually benefits the project and is welcome,=
 rather than ending in &gt;/dev/null)</div><div><br></div><div>Given your e=
xperience Bruce, can you offer us some advice on how you would approach it =
currently? What do you think makes the most sense, and how should we procee=
d with collaboration to at least see a small change in making this happen i=
n the future?=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Companies are willing to add the code weight because it is a sale for<br>
them, and customers are willing to pay to meet the check box --- that<br>
calculus just doesn&#39;t work in the community.<br></blockquote><div>And t=
his should always be at the forefront, as this makes the project exactly as=
 strong as it is today.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex">
<br>
-- <br>
=C2=A0 Bruce Momjian=C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruce@momjian.us" target=
=3D"_blank">bruce@momjian.us</a>&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"=
https://url.avanan.click/v2/r01/___https://momjian.us___.YXAzOnBlcmNvbmE6YT=
pnOmZhM2VjN2JlNjcyOTZmMGQwMjEzOGM1NWU5OTA5NzM0Ojc6ZDgxOTo3NzQ0MzQwZjhmODA4Y=
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" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://url.avanan.click/v2/r01/___h=
ttps://momjian.us___.YXAzOnBlcmNvbmE6YTpnOmZhM2VjN2JlNjcyOTZmMGQwMjEzOGM1NW=
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jA5YWU1Mjk2NjQ5YjFiZjk0NDI3MDNjOnA6VDpO</a><br>
=C2=A0 EDB=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a hr=
ef=3D"https://url.avanan.click/v2/r01/___https://enterprisedb.com___.YXAzOn=
BlcmNvbmE6YTpnOmZhM2VjN2JlNjcyOTZmMGQwMjEzOGM1NWU5OTA5NzM0Ojc6MjZhZTplMDhhZ=
WQ5Nzg3YmVjODI4MDQ5YmU2ODc1MGExMTVmMmRmOTVlOTk2N2FmM2Y1N2VkN2VmYTZhYWMyZDQ1=
MzE3OnA6VDpO" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://url.avanan.click=
/v2/r01/___https://enterprisedb.com___.YXAzOnBlcmNvbmE6YTpnOmZhM2VjN2JlNjcy=
OTZmMGQwMjEzOGM1NWU5OTA5NzM0Ojc6MjZhZTplMDhhZWQ5Nzg3YmVjODI4MDQ5YmU2ODc1MGE=
xMTVmMmRmOTVlOTk2N2FmM2Y1N2VkN2VmYTZhYWMyZDQ1MzE3OnA6VDpO</a><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the futur=
e.<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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