Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2025 16:53:57 -0400
From: Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
To: Kai Wagner <kai.wagner@percona.com>
Cc: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=81lvaro?= Herrera <alvherre@kurilemu.de>,
	Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>,
	Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com>,
	Laurenz Albe <laurenz.albe@cybertec.at>,
	Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com>,
	pgsql-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: Enquiry about TDE with PgSQL
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On Fri, Oct 31, 2025 at 09:04:32PM +0100, Kai Wagner wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2025 at 7:22 PM Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> 
>     On Fri, Oct 31, 2025 at 06:33:54PM +0100, Álvaro Herrera wrote:
>     > On 2025-Oct-31, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>     >
>     > > Yes, we have been avoiding the masquerade for years.  The question is
>     > > can we continue.  From the lack of discussion since April 1, 2025, it
>     > > seems the answer is yes.
> 
> I think this assumption can be considered a false positive. The main reason
> this hasn't surfaced yet is that it first takes some time to adjust, and more
> importantly, there are the downstream forks with the necessary changes that are
> already in use or continue to be sold. So why stop doing this?

Keep in mind this is coming up seven months after the standard became
effective, and it is being brought up by someone from Percona, and not
from an end-user.  I would have thought we would have had more end users
complaining.

> I don't think, as stated initially, that we can continue to ignore this any
> longer. As a project, we are losing out on a significant number of users who
> are willing to use fully open-source solutions, but are held back due to this
> requirement. We had numerous conversations over the last few years, exactly
> about this fact, and people went with MySQL, Mongo, or others - not because of
> "does this technically make sense to us as engineers, but because they couldn't
> fulfill their internal requirements". As Laurenz already stated very well:
> "rational arguments are missing the point".
> 
> It's not news that we also tried a way of implementing it. What I would like to
> achieve here is a group of interested people who can actually make a call on
> how this is envisioned to work. Do we handle everything in core directly, or do
> we make all necessary parts extensible? This approach may be more efficient in

We created a group several years ago, got pretty far, but ended up
stopping for reasons I stated in my blog.  I am not excited about doing
this again unless there is a clear change of community opinion, which I
have not seen.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.