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* Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38
@ 2024-09-22 13:47 Joe Conway <[email protected]>
2024-09-22 13:59 ` Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Shaheed Haque <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Joe Conway @ 2024-09-22 13:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Paul Foerster <[email protected]>; Peter J. Holzer <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]
On 9/21/24 15:19, Paul Foerster wrote:
> I already expressed the idea of changing all locales to ICU. The
> problem there is that I'd have to create new instances and then move
> each database individually. I wish I could convert already running
> databases… This also takes time. Still, I think I'm going to try
> this route. It's always a gamble if reindexing is needed or not with
> any glibc change.
Note that moving to ICU might improve things, but there are similar
potential issues with ICU as well. The trick there would be to get your
OS distro provider to maintain the same ICU version across major
versions of the distro, which is not the case currently. Nor does the
PGDG repo do that.
--
Joe Conway
PostgreSQL Contributors Team
RDS Open Source Databases
Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38
2024-09-22 13:47 Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Joe Conway <[email protected]>
@ 2024-09-22 13:59 ` Shaheed Haque <[email protected]>
2024-09-22 14:11 ` Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Ron Johnson <[email protected]>
2024-09-22 14:16 ` Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Karsten Hilbert <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Shaheed Haque @ 2024-09-22 13:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joe Conway <[email protected]>; +Cc: Paul Foerster <[email protected]>; Peter J. Holzer <[email protected]>; [email protected]
I've been working on Unix-like systems for decades and though I thought I
understood most of the issues to do with i18n/l10n, I've only just started
using Postgres and I don't understand is why these changes ONLY seem to
affect Postgres. Or is it more that it also affects text editors and the
like, but we just tend to ignore that?
On Sun, 22 Sep 2024, 14:47 Joe Conway, <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9/21/24 15:19, Paul Foerster wrote:
> > I already expressed the idea of changing all locales to ICU. The
> > problem there is that I'd have to create new instances and then move
> > each database individually. I wish I could convert already running
> > databases… This also takes time. Still, I think I'm going to try
> > this route. It's always a gamble if reindexing is needed or not with
> > any glibc change.
>
>
> Note that moving to ICU might improve things, but there are similar
> potential issues with ICU as well. The trick there would be to get your
> OS distro provider to maintain the same ICU version across major
> versions of the distro, which is not the case currently. Nor does the
> PGDG repo do that.
>
>
> --
> Joe Conway
> PostgreSQL Contributors Team
> RDS Open Source Databases
> Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com
>
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38
2024-09-22 13:47 Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Joe Conway <[email protected]>
2024-09-22 13:59 ` Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Shaheed Haque <[email protected]>
@ 2024-09-22 14:11 ` Ron Johnson <[email protected]>
2024-09-22 16:52 ` Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Paul Förster <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Ron Johnson @ 2024-09-22 14:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-generallists.postgresql.org <[email protected]>
Shaheed,
How often do you sort words in text editors?
How often do you have your text editor care whether the word you just typed
is the *only* instance of that word in the document?
Not too often. So... yes, we ignore the problem.
The real question is why nobody notices it in other RDBMSs like Oracle, SQL
Server and MySQL.
On Sun, Sep 22, 2024 at 9:59 AM Shaheed Haque <[email protected]>
wrote:
> I've been working on Unix-like systems for decades and though I thought I
> understood most of the issues to do with i18n/l10n, I've only just started
> using Postgres and I don't understand is why these changes ONLY seem to
> affect Postgres. Or is it more that it also affects text editors and the
> like, but we just tend to ignore that?
>
> On Sun, 22 Sep 2024, 14:47 Joe Conway, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 9/21/24 15:19, Paul Foerster wrote:
>> > I already expressed the idea of changing all locales to ICU. The
>> > problem there is that I'd have to create new instances and then move
>> > each database individually. I wish I could convert already running
>> > databases… This also takes time. Still, I think I'm going to try
>> > this route. It's always a gamble if reindexing is needed or not with
>> > any glibc change.
>>
>>
>> Note that moving to ICU might improve things, but there are similar
>> potential issues with ICU as well. The trick there would be to get your
>> OS distro provider to maintain the same ICU version across major
>> versions of the distro, which is not the case currently. Nor does the
>> PGDG repo do that.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joe Conway
>> PostgreSQL Contributors Team
>> RDS Open Source Databases
>> Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com
>>
>>
>>
--
Death to <Redacted>, and butter sauce.
Don't boil me, I'm still alive.
<Redacted> crustacean!
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38
2024-09-22 13:47 Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Joe Conway <[email protected]>
2024-09-22 13:59 ` Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Shaheed Haque <[email protected]>
2024-09-22 14:11 ` Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Ron Johnson <[email protected]>
@ 2024-09-22 16:52 ` Paul Förster <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Paul Förster @ 2024-09-22 16:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ron Johnson <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-generallists.postgresql.org <[email protected]>
Hi Ron,
> On 22. Sep, 2024, at 16:11, Ron Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> The real question is why nobody notices it in other RDBMSs like Oracle, SQL Server and MySQL.
The answer is simple for Oracle: It includes a whole zoo of locale mappings and uses each one as it is needed. This is one of the many things with Oracle that only grows over time but does never get smaller again.
I suspect it's similar with MariaDB, MySQL, SQL Server and others. Only PostgreSQL has no such thing as a local inventory and relies on either glibc or ICU.
Cheers,
Paul
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38
2024-09-22 13:47 Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Joe Conway <[email protected]>
2024-09-22 13:59 ` Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Shaheed Haque <[email protected]>
@ 2024-09-22 14:16 ` Karsten Hilbert <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Karsten Hilbert @ 2024-09-22 14:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]
Am Sun, Sep 22, 2024 at 02:59:34PM +0100 schrieb Shaheed Haque:
> I've been working on Unix-like systems for decades and though I thought I
> understood most of the issues to do with i18n/l10n, I've only just started
> using Postgres and I don't understand is why these changes ONLY seem to
> affect Postgres. Or is it more that it also affects text editors and the
> like, but we just tend to ignore that?
Text editors for example do not persist ordering based on locale.
I'm sure there's software ignoring the issue, too.
Karsten
--
GPG 40BE 5B0E C98E 1713 AFA6 5BC0 3BEA AC80 7D4F C89B
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 5+ messages in thread
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2024-09-22 13:47 Re: glibc updarte 2.31 to 2.38 Joe Conway <[email protected]>
2024-09-22 13:59 ` Shaheed Haque <[email protected]>
2024-09-22 14:11 ` Ron Johnson <[email protected]>
2024-09-22 16:52 ` Paul Förster <[email protected]>
2024-09-22 14:16 ` Karsten Hilbert <[email protected]>
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