Subject: Re: pg_upgrade can result in early wraparound on databases with high
 transaction load
To: Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de>, Justin Pryzby <pryzby@telsasoft.com>
CC: Noah Misch <noah@leadboat.com>, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>, Bruce
 Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>, Jason Harvey <jason@reddit.com>, Peter Geoghegan
	<pg@bowt.ie>, "Tharakan, Robins" <thararamazoncom@telsasoft.com>,
	<pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
References: 
 <CALSof1GM6i21BLr8PsFiRYazakojvesdc+_MiR-L_V5NNkRuWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH2-Wz=9Cj8H0=GAiHducPETWf6ZXEzjk_pFkjPWnWH6hptpLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20190615183759.GB239428@rfd.leadboat.com>
 <20210423234256.hwopuftipdmp3okf@alap3.anarazel.de>
 <20210424002827.GO7256@telsasoft.com>
 <20210424010005.fttcfskp3unr4jiu@alap3.anarazel.de>
From: "Drouvot, Bertrand" <bdrouvot@amazon.com>
Message-ID: <fe006d56-85f1-5f1e-98e7-05b53dff4f51@amazon.com>
Date: Tue, 4 May 2021 10:17:49 +0200
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Hi,

On 4/24/21 3:00 AM, Andres Freund wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 2021-04-23 19:28:27 -0500, Justin Pryzby wrote:
>> This (combination of) thread(s) seems relevant.
>>
>> Subject: pg_upgrade failing for 200+ million Large Objects
>> https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/12601596dbbc4c01b86b4ac4d2bd4d48%40EX13D05UWC001.ant.amazon.com
>> https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/a9f9376f1c3343a6bb319dce294e20ac%40EX13D05UWC001.ant.amazon.com
>> https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/cc089cc3-fc43-9904-fdba-d830d8222145%40enterprisedb.com#3eec85391c6076a4913e96a86fece75e
> Huh. Thanks for digging these up.
>
>
>>> Allows the user to provide a constant via pg_upgrade command-line, that
>>> overrides the 2 billion constant in pg_resetxlog [1] thereby increasing the
>>> (window of) Transaction IDs available for pg_upgrade to complete.
> That seems the entirely the wrong approach to me, buying further into
> the broken idea of inventing random wrong values for oldestXid.
>
> We drive important things like the emergency xid limits off oldestXid. On
> databases with tables that are older than ~147million xids (i.e. not even
> affected by the default autovacuum_freeze_max_age) the current constant leads
> to setting the oldestXid to a value *in the future*/wrapped around. Any
> different different constant (or pg_upgrade parameter) will do that too in
> other scenarios.
>
> As far as I can tell there is precisely *no* correct behaviour here other than
> exactly copying the oldestXid limit from the source database.
>
Please find attached a patch proposal doing so: it adds a new (- u) 
parameter to pg_resetwal that allows to specify the oldest unfrozen XID 
to set.
Then this new parameter is being used in pg_upgrade to copy the source 
Latest checkpoint's oldestXID.

Questions:

  * Should we keep the old behavior in case -x is being used without -u?
    (The proposed patch does not set an arbitrary oldestXID anymore in
    case -x is used.)
  * Also shouldn't we ensure that the xid provided with -x or -u is >=
    FirstNormalTransactionId (Currently the only check is that it is # 0)?

I'm adding this patch to the commitfest.

Bertrand


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    <p>Hi,<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/24/21 3:00 AM, Andres Freund
      wrote:
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:20210424010005.fttcfskp3unr4jiu@alap3.anarazel.de">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Hi,

On 2021-04-23 19:28:27 -0500, Justin Pryzby wrote:
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">This (combination of) thread(s) seems relevant.

Subject: pg_upgrade failing for 200+ million Large Objects
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/12601596dbbc4c01b86b4ac4d2bd4d48%40EX13D05UWC001.ant.amazon.com">https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/12601596dbbc4c01b86b4ac4d2bd4d48%40EX13D05UWC001.ant.amazon.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/a9f9376f1c3343a6bb319dce294e20ac%40EX13D05UWC001.ant.amazon.com">https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/a9f9376f1c3343a6bb319dce294e20ac%40EX13D05UWC001.ant.amazon.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/cc089cc3-fc43-9904-fdba-d830d8222145%40enterprisedb.com#3eec85391c6076a4913e96a86fece75e">https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/cc089cc3-fc43-9904-fdba-d830d8222145%40enterprisedb.com#3eec85391c6076a4913e96a86fece75e</a>
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Huh. Thanks for digging these up.


</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Allows the user to provide a constant via pg_upgrade command-line, that
overrides the 2 billion constant in pg_resetxlog [1] thereby increasing the
(window of) Transaction IDs available for pg_upgrade to complete.
</pre>
        </blockquote>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
That seems the entirely the wrong approach to me, buying further into
the broken idea of inventing random wrong values for oldestXid.

We drive important things like the emergency xid limits off oldestXid. On
databases with tables that are older than ~147million xids (i.e. not even
affected by the default autovacuum_freeze_max_age) the current constant leads
to setting the oldestXid to a value *in the future*/wrapped around. Any
different different constant (or pg_upgrade parameter) will do that too in
other scenarios.

As far as I can tell there is precisely *no* correct behaviour here other than
exactly copying the oldestXid limit from the source database.

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p>Please find attached a patch proposal doing so: it adds a new (-
      u) parameter to pg_resetwal that allows to specify the oldest
      unfrozen XID to set.<br>
      Then this new parameter is being used in pg_upgrade to copy the
      source Latest checkpoint's oldestXID.<br>
      <br>
      Questions:<br>
    </p>
    <ul>
      <li>Should we keep the old behavior in case -x is being used
        without -u? (The proposed patch does not set an arbitrary
        oldestXID anymore in case -x is used.)</li>
      <li>Also shouldn't we ensure that the xid provided with -x or -u
        is &gt;= FirstNormalTransactionId (Currently the only check is
        that it is # 0)?</li>
    </ul>
    <p>I'm adding this patch to the commitfest.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Bertrand
    </p>
  </body>
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