Subject: Re: New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
From: "Jeffrey W. Baker" <jwbaker@acm.org>
To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
In-Reply-To: <43DEDEFB.8090409@commandprompt.com>
References: <1138668525.643.59.camel@evim.gunduz.org>
	<m37j8hgjc4.fsf@mobile.int.cbbrowne.com>
	<43DEDEFB.8090409@commandprompt.com>
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Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:41:22 -0800
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On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 19:52 -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >
> >
> >On my Debian systems, I can install PostgreSQL quite readily via the
> >command "apt-get install postgresql-8.1", which can get GUIed at least
> >somewhat if I run aptitude, synaptic, or such...
> >  
> >
> Yes Christopher, you can... I can, and Devrim can....
> 
> As more and more people come on board people are going to want to 
> download a .exe (a metaphor),
> double click and have it open an installer, they will then want to click 
> next, next, continue, finish.

There is such a thing as best practices.  If you install postgresql in
this glorious graphical manner, what will prevent you from accidentally
upgrading a shared library which postgresql depends upon?  Nothing,
really, unless this installer is going to be able to customize, build,
and install a native package on all the target operating systems.

How will you do an orderly upgrade from one revision to the next,
including all the dependencies?  How will you distribute security
updates?

I predict this form of installation will cause a great many support
headaches as users report problems which are caused by oddball
compilers, strange CFLAGS, unreleased or strangely patched versions of
shared libraries and headers, and so forth.

> You don't get that with apt-get install.

Right, with apt-get install you get a package built with a known-good
compiler, known-sane configure flags, and a method of pinning the
dependencies, which passes at the very least a smoketest on Alpha,
AMD64, ARM, HPPA, x86, IA64, 640x0, MIPS, PowerPC, S/390, and SPARC.

> There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, 
> because most people installing
> the software:
> 
> A. Don't know how to use it
> B. Probably don't know how to use Linux
> C. Don't want to.

Oracle's graphical installer is a material impediment to Oracle
adoption.  The installer only works on systems where particular versions
of Java and Motif libraries are available.  On 64-bit Opteron systems it
only works with the peculiar 32-bit thunking tree favored by Red Hat and
hardly anybody else.

If I could install Oracle on Debian/AMD64 with a shell script, I'd drop
Postgresql in a heartbeat.

Obviously anybody is welcome and able to just write whatever software
they feel is needed, but go ahead and count me among the skeptics.

-jwb