Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1sOlco-0013eV-HL for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 22:05:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1sOlcl-004e4g-Ho for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 22:05:20 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1sOlcl-004e4Y-8B for pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 22:05:19 +0000 Received: from fout6-smtp.messagingengine.com ([103.168.172.149]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1sOlcf-0007Sy-Ii for pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 22:05:19 +0000 Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailfout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F3513802C8; Tue, 2 Jul 2024 18:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 02 Jul 2024 18:05:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eisentraut.org; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type :date:date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1719957911; x=1720044311; bh=99sPtS8f01AQX34w+ZtDKO7AXDTs01GI uF8RKTGnHj0=; b=T1ZQ5adGnCy+OTRhcat3T83TxFtWUoG+NCELcEHak3cwDbKS FwqiA3VyTmb8MOEkhpFZyTGytar+b1sCQu293vDmvSVYMHsazEGIg67ajHyovEG/ gLL4+KWy+JaQkS3+rb4dokGYW0rIOlMkO3RG9fkDuxR40YcWBELyBYzBGKM/AVJY bv9YUH9l6SkSt/7c1ff5xqFr7PQNsND9niStOqicRuXKQOl/sfHes9Ne+CFCxZ0T VHIPXu6FTMScEPJ4U+/Et6fH01ullOM6HtQjdAFLe4VWMncxZc5sBLbZ5dx5ywva 4wFt4cFHC5FdDoXnSHm1UCiWueoHTwC7R9PUaA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t=1719957911; x= 1720044311; bh=99sPtS8f01AQX34w+ZtDKO7AXDTs01GIuF8RKTGnHj0=; b=m HswAXEPkAn85EYCc5CPlvKsgeaRNZUWFab0PM6cLW0Hu2VmGaXc+BRrsFeHe5d7G rXY5o/2VBG/fr/kK29mEZ4yILHFraxBnBUGyIFypFH8dwWdni/0BZ8jPRoQ+LBlA chbB/V1wbGLKqmpGoycvSPSrm8IQISgyhwHl1Ur38G6rS9/hWeM9rnnfK7hdmB2c pTAwxejwM9jrxtebdOSOZ8jVQIEK7VWOJCxba9zIX/2YwKykrcwaerSYsqhvQPAP nqsrAqOXkIISgHkP5kyeY1+7XGvMc/1UoYjp65xT9kyS3mSVWnESpv+IEWe7sf92 oYCtfoUBiaYu6J1a2/zoA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeftddrudeigddthecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefkffggfgfuvfevfhfhjggtgfesthekredttddvjeenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgv rhcugfhishgvnhhtrhgruhhtuceophgvthgvrhesvghishgvnhhtrhgruhhtrdhorhhgqe enucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeejhfevhedttefgfffhhfeffefggffhffelgfeiueeukeeh vdehvdefheffvdefueenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrih hlfhhrohhmpehpvghtvghrsegvihhsvghnthhrrghuthdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ie0a040ee:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 2 Jul 2024 18:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1200e97b-3a52-43c6-8b16-20cf45f58249@eisentraut.org> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 00:05:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Built-in CTYPE provider To: Noah Misch , Jeff Davis Cc: Daniel Verite , Robert Haas , Jeremy Schneider , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org References: <846a7e1fa2024918b58ff7583523a2f3de9a11b4.camel@j-davis.com> <3117d30aa911b408b90420f4f280fa0c3b5851be.camel@j-davis.com> <4135cf11-206d-40ed-96c0-9363c1232379@eisentraut.org> <7451f81ba0cb512222ab759de8ca1cffe44e9acb.camel@j-davis.com> <1f309153-8198-4efa-86dd-8c304ec0040c@eisentraut.org> <20240629220857.fb.nmisch@google.com> <1ecfeb4d2b1b7f119fa917d3052a3aecfaf4f425.camel@j-davis.com> <20240701230352.2c.nmisch@google.com> <20240702165145.af.nmisch@google.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Peter Eisentraut In-Reply-To: <20240702165145.af.nmisch@google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk On 02.07.24 18:51, Noah Misch wrote: > On Mon, Jul 01, 2024 at 06:19:08PM -0700, Jeff Davis wrote: >> On Mon, 2024-07-01 at 16:03 -0700, Noah Misch wrote: >>>   An alternative would be to make pg_upgrade reject >>> operating on a cluster that contains use of $SUBJECT. >> >> That wouldn't help anyone. > > Can you say more about that? For the last decade at least, I think our > standard for new features has been to error rather than allow an operation > that creates a known path to wrong query results. I think that's a helpful > standard that we should continue to follow. I don't think the builtin locale provider is any different in this respect from the other providers: The locale data might change and there is a version mechanism to track that. We don't prevent pg_upgrade in scenarios like that for other providers.