Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAxlE-0004K9-KN for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 16:27:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAxkh-0008Ei-Qw for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 16:26:35 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAxkh-0008Eb-0H for pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 16:26:35 +0000 Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.25]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAxkc-0001sj-Io for pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 16:26:34 +0000 Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C306953; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 11:26:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 13 Feb 2021 11:26:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=anarazel.de; h= date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to; s=fm3; bh=adC6CeW94h6ePv7lbKlzZi9pfUc 5ySERplnzHIVoAjs=; b=AXDm0xdKZENhLFQiPJKj0aa4GP8GCb2wlknyisY5+fV p16JAQkgmTZ9ZombcKXxcin9GENxVxx3z8KSIgZe7fnJIcyaspIpDNv4vDCpVWqi CnrRkFif/X3jAx4PQwUzjgKDYq8dxF+uGBl6LUCTsGrtkbmuZ7q9c47MUfJaOXMb 84XHg3hEE6La3Dc7zU/o88r2vg9xUQgyaa6cSzqd8O+pxIrJ/J2pGT4ghrTX7EZi ufeW0iQmc6N2zhbtEHv1ksfw4ISXBEKzefsostNR2L1Z8PrICqL2ATAYCUbQDRh1 BygNP1USRVvFBjYfFfIgBGwbLwuHwfNqMHjiw8KxZBw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=adC6Ce W94h6ePv7lbKlzZi9pfUc5ySERplnzHIVoAjs=; b=vwIiS5lW8yi9mQ+HF146wz 1aqjYgBNBEPyPdqlUntqz33AW70Cd8figM0GgDkZ2UQcun/C6HEXCdb6i5UZrFlC khFEld+TGuSMTvJZU7sXc9thsYojO+ROw1T10S32xYZrB01DwHD4aWxw0NuoZtsO Wg4CUqAC4fuoGx+5/RBkXGm3H8W8pkcGieJhdAfRwMrdCDstUqOlDA9iB6skRWjt 66wtVPfFjkqeN/aruHPZD951wRSpyUtT7u76LsbvzasnzXQ3X4Q13ToRs9naXYXZ aaG+4YsQ6HaIEkUs0QtRNI1sBau1AS06jEiTs8/+9utnKU54N2WM9d7KTms3WHug == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrieefgdekfecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggujgesthdtredttddtvdenucfhrhhomheptehnughrvghs ucfhrhgvuhhnugcuoegrnhgurhgvshesrghnrghrrgiivghlrdguvgeqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnhepudekhfekleeugeevteehleffffejgeelueduleeffeeutdelffeujeffhfeu ffdunecukfhppeeijedrudeitddrvddujedrvdehtdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpe dtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegrnhgurhgvshesrghnrghrrgiivghlrdgu vg X-ME-Proxy: Received: from intern.anarazel.de (c-67-160-217-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.160.217.250]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4DD7F1080057; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 11:26:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 08:26:23 -0800 From: Andres Freund To: "Bossart, Nathan" Cc: "pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org" , "McAlister, Grant" , "Mlodgenski, Jim" , "Nasby, Jim" , "Hsu, John" Subject: Re: partial heap only tuples Message-ID: <20210213162623.4upmsuzwv2anqoqx@alap3.anarazel.de> References: <2ECBBCA0-4D8D-4841-8872-4A5BBDC063D2@amazon.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2ECBBCA0-4D8D-4841-8872-4A5BBDC063D2@amazon.com> List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Precedence: bulk Hi, On 2021-02-09 18:48:21 +0000, Bossart, Nathan wrote: > In order to be eligible for cleanup, the final tuple in the > corresponding PHOT/HOT chain must also be eligible for cleanup, or all > indexes must have been updated later in the chain before any visible > tuples. This sounds like it might be prohibitively painful. Adding effectively unremovable bloat to remove other bloat is not an uncomplicated premise. I think you'd really need a way to fully remove this as part of vacuum for this to be viable. Greetings, Andres Freund