Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2024 19:00:22 -0700
From: Noah Misch <noah@leadboat.com>
To: Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de>
Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, Heikki Linnakangas <hlinnaka@iki.fi>,
	Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>,
	Thomas Munro <thomas.munro@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AIO writes vs hint bits vs checksums
Message-ID: <20240925020022.c5.nmisch@google.com>
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On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 04:30:25PM -0400, Andres Freund wrote:
> On 2024-09-24 12:43:40 -0700, Noah Misch wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 11:55:08AM -0400, Andres Freund wrote:
> > > Besides that, the need to copy the buffers makes checkpoints with AIO
> > > noticeably slower when checksums are enabled - it's not the checksum but the
> > > copy that's the biggest source of the slowdown.

How big is that copy's contribution to the slowdown there?  A measurable CPU
overhead on writes likely does outweigh the unmeasurable overhead on index
scans, but ...

> > > Does this sound like a reasonable idea?  Counterpoints?

> > How should we think about comparing the distributed cost of the buffer
> > header manipulations during index scans vs. the costs of bounce buffers?
> 
> Well, the cost of bounce buffers would be born as long as postgres is up,
> whereas a not-measurable (if it indeed isn't) cost during index scans wouldn't
> really show up.

... neither BM_SETTING_HINTS nor keeping bounce buffers looks like a bad
decision.  From what I've heard so far of the performance effects, if it were
me, I would keep the bounce buffers.  I'd pursue BM_SETTING_HINTS and bounce
buffer removal as a distinct project after the main AIO capability.  Bounce
buffers have an implementation.  They aren't harming other design decisions.
The AIO project is big, so I'd want to err on the side of not designating
other projects as its prerequisites.

> Zooming out (a lot) more: I like the idea of having a way to get the
> permission to perform some kinds of modifications on a page without an
> exlusive lock. While obviously a lot more work, I do think there's some
> potential to have some fast-paths that perform work on a page level without
> blocking out readers. E.g. some simple cases of insert could correctly be done
> without blocking out readers (by ordering the update of the max page offset

True.