Message-ID: <4F8C7FAD.4030009@2ndQuadrant.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 16:23:09 -0400
From: Greg Smith <greg@2ndQuadrant.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US;
	rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111120 Icedove/3.1.16
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
CC: Simon Riggs <simon@2ndQuadrant.com>, Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>,
	pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: Last gasp
References: 
 <CA+U5nML0w7FAM8Wi6W1ObSa160ipN5shg3Z0y91ew-Um8iXxCg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+TgmoazMq6FF2otE_5HYJr3nwwEy9_0TmGYu_G3AsY8ckQcjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+U5nMJLg6aDi-0LOZXx6HMnEKE6-GY7pbCbjTXkQvfSwEb+qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+Tgmoaf=b+QNcR+CZE6TfK-DN=BNV2xDikVZwdreuiC+PnrrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1333651599.31440.47.camel@hvost>
	<CA+Tgmoa75QujxzCZC+dj=0+JayGPhJD2kQMDBmbGmmq_HPgHxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1333653659.31440.68.camel@hvost>
	<CA+TgmobG3JPW0e63NAJY9uJUqzDoJ+R7yL7vovAYfFw7pw4iaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1333655785.15576.13.camel@hvost>
	<CA+Tgmoa_6x87zO6-qodE=v4z0EnG1AgEMDB-pHv9t0eTWOkjwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAZKuFbHQA6Q3hO5amMLh6Zvh=-8tdKeQFUacdDVREnvp889Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F7E99BA.1080805@2ndQuadrant.com>
	<CA+TgmoaRRSyLQ4qaW82aLQ1bM40oJ-eZc0mWXsBF2__xjH4xzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<8687.1333833601@sss.pgh.pa.us>
	<CA+U5nMJNo0jz0WiyAHze3HU=heWhx8PW1Z9_VLZ4-xVjYWMvJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<9214.1334505671@sss.pgh.pa.us>
In-Reply-To: <9214.1334505671@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 04/15/2012 12:01 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
> Where I think we have been fooling ourselves is in failing to tell
> the difference between a patch that is committable in the current fest,
> versus one that is still WIP and is going to need more development time.

I wonder if this bit of state might be worth extending the UI to 
include.  Just a little toggle box with the options "WIP" and "Commit 
Submission" there.  [I am unattached to those particular terms]

I think everyone is clear that Command Triggers is an example that 
reflects a more general problem seen many times before; I'll continue 
using it as a fresh example here without meaning to pick on Dimitri in 
particular.  If Dimitri had submitted that in January while ticking 
"Commit Submission", it might have sparked a talk about the difference 
in expectations earlier.  If we use Robert as the bad guy watching the 
CF progress (again, just as an example, not trying to paint him with 
that title), I think it would have been easier for him to write an 
e-mail like this:

"It's March now, and this feature has been under heavy review and 
development for 6 weeks.  This looks more like a WIP feature to me, not 
one that arrived as a Commit Submission.  Is there any useful subset to 
consider instead?"

Compared to the current way such things happen, that's a more factual 
style of message without as much emotion or judging, and one that can be 
raised much earlier in the CF cycle.  I think it will be easier for 
people to write those, compared with having to be the person saying 
"this isn't ready to commit" only at the end.

-- 
Greg Smith   2ndQuadrant US    greg@2ndQuadrant.com   Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services, and 24x7 Support www.2ndQuadrant.com