Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Z0RRU-000607-8U for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:28:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with smtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Z0RRT-0007Hr-Br for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:28:03 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:1501:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Z0RRR-0007Hf-O7; Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:28:02 +0000 Received: from mail-qc0-x22c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22c]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Z0RRN-0002l8-Jw; Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:28:00 +0000 Received: by qczw4 with SMTP id w4so15404385qcz.2; Thu, 04 Jun 2015 02:27:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=IT3bjLM/GQK9EPOnQfqlEl7stSwgjXO17QFQbIaOk70=; b=b3Zdx3pYlPENPU8eYHEImz1Amn3gCNYBHiNVQUE8+8SUmKVCSVlKBAqw82p+IgA//1 DAFam/MiTsjQFprWdKtFZH1hyv8pQORYVezdgIPYEmgOe8ep+W/cRG+JBed/OXeDb0rK cbdjt3ym4Ze93T3YV5CabMJenQ6nE1BxJbpkOAcUQml5sjUR92b5cyXPKkC2UXMRSm7o PLT4dQpcRK70Jx4FqIVgzKAYl4+5r1WR4S4LWnc9+I2zKHSNUxtNgJ3IJvIUSmczEcJd /OL0ytosRM43MppnB+hbkoQUCgb4cUGyFnqyOFlP/MM2q/TOebJmXHPoTeX78hsVPwrj KG3w== X-Received: by 10.140.97.136 with SMTP id m8mr41273602qge.32.1433410076577; Thu, 04 Jun 2015 02:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.99] (dsl-hkibrasgw1-58c38f-82.dhcp.inet.fi. [88.195.143.82]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 47sm2055403qgt.15.2015.06.04.02.27.53 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 04 Jun 2015 02:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55701A16.9040009@iki.fi> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2015 12:27:50 +0300 From: Heikki Linnakangas Reply-To: hlinnaka@iki.fi User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andres Freund CC: Bruce Momjian , Robert Haas , Tom Lane , Stephen Frost , Magnus Hagander , "pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org" , pgsql-core Subject: Re: [CORE] postpone next week's release References: <28477.1432931820@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20150529223321.GB6535@alap3.anarazel.de> <12510.1432958887@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20150530154559.GA25053@momjian.us> <20150530204727.GJ13944@alap3.anarazel.de> <557011A0.6070604@iki.fi> <28642_1433409468_557017BC_28642_54_1_20150604091742.GI18006@awork2.anarazel.de> In-Reply-To: <28642_1433409468_557017BC_28642_54_1_20150604091742.GI18006@awork2.anarazel.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Pg-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) List-Archive: List-Help: List-ID: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org On 06/04/2015 12:17 PM, Andres Freund wrote: > On 2015-06-04 11:51:44 +0300, Heikki Linnakangas wrote: >> So, I'm all for refactoring and adding abstractions where it makes sense, >> but it's not going to solve design problems. > > I personally don't really see the multixact changes being that bad on > the overall design. It pretty much just extended an earlier design. Now > that wasn't great, but I don't think too many people had realized that > at that point. The biggest problem was underestimating the complexity. Yeah, many of the issues were pre-existing, and would've been good to fix anyway. The multixact issues remind me of the another similar thing we did: the visibility map. It too was non-critical when it was first introduced, but later we started using it for index-only-scans, and it suddenly became important that it's up-to-date and crash-safe. We did uncover some bugs in that area when index-only-scans were introduced, similar to the multixact bugs, only not as bad because it didn't lead to data loss. I don't have any point to make with that comparison, but it was similar in many ways. - Heikki -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers