Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hxBLT-00046E-1r for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 14:30:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hxBLR-0000NI-Oz for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 14:30:45 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hxBLR-0000NA-Dr for pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 14:30:45 +0000 Received: from meldrar.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::31]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hxBLP-0001vc-EP for pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 14:30:45 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=postgresql.org; s=20171124; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=9/x+NlE7ykktBqpuMqDe84S8t0KIil7oNlsZXdVBbUM=; b=OQ4Qh3/MwSl2qaYtyL7aBi3ylb McYemx5/PnfHk9mYi3HcUq4pVYCuYaDiZF/Tu3XzTQosS5qbreVHvqcz91SFOWiK3YeTdfMozX352 pwefzq0Ejb//OpaJFEboicYA1oO6SE0KjwxZhyXNZy/q7/Y1JAKOZdqMtnHkWhwcHZv0HUf1ZyxBj HbF0pA/xtFgWlDOxvPxJD0U20ITl5u7q233EppJSuCOx7+YJ0CUIa73yj+3COkP4wvn4zOaxy9ufS JF66Fq6092nAgIUJkAhnXjAO9jwy+vhcO3kC+5PeczV5KfyiF58GjjEMaXG+7mzPW3+eH5GdNYrSx c0SSD8jw==; Received: from [63.118.15.50] (helo=Ph33r-Retina.local) by meldrar.postgresql.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hxBLM-0000og-T8; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 14:30:43 +0000 Subject: Re: Add "password_protocol" connection parameter to libpq To: Peter Eisentraut , Jeff Davis , Stephen Frost , Michael Paquier Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org References: <227015d8417f2b4fef03f8966dbfa5cbcc4f44da.camel@j-davis.com> <20190809030021.GG3194@paquier.xyz> <3bbf5968ea705700a2605d6db74d8510bea7940b.camel@j-davis.com> <20190809100922.GI3194@paquier.xyz> <20190809132850.GL16436@tamriel.snowman.net> <609482826475e0063c7d71b2449ae31c0d61b232.camel@j-davis.com> <071e45a6-97f7-1614-371c-98ecb03aed65@postgresql.org> <7a7a2f07-d013-eb80-85ba-9edaaf845038@2ndquadrant.com> <75dff08d-12cd-9e85-97ec-d7db55e224a7@postgresql.org> From: "Jonathan S. Katz" Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jkatz@postgresql.org; keydata= mQINBFtShwABEAC7PNHDUOTYuifpUCk23KqfxdQQkn4nkoxOXRK0+rAj36FiwqGB4TJFuOVZ sDFAEiSlC8Jt4y5Cs7B5tetT8JNd2cs6zp/udMJJDz9d65O9PDpdlMgAmIiTzpLlSdx8FG56 DTksaDv1d8j3cTJPSE4/fWSxqzA7o3Y9UuL7atZPrzfImgpRKs0of7elIHwOa8GucjyhYqcR h60wFBJc2KXqQdDYRTZy43DSnY/0VNc0omiH355fustvpm+m5HjD3w7qZyfN3fpKJpnX1LCF f3MnPHaDGITIYGRCBXvf0UqUtD6OEVWPv2C2gyqWMIpWmZTOgDufltKyIByKBoS9x0PlFkij 04X3KODCngt+N8Ssc9OICc6QSxhjoP48PYPdmiTmkrGuf0LX084wj1xeo1NX7XxZK39F6dTJ DhsIiW0sNS0xMxQHLHG9VLbPjx3SANQBh6BuryPz5ZupW9/TIDmkvprtU/oXfKgtfYm3fxmk EctxbWrEPsFTFPyuMqQu6l+xyQv0s1VLZfjNWaua6H1/gGoIt6kRnn5qMXDVVpijuWkHbv7G ngaQMd258UrrOEHnnjzhQ7jxMWV9D+emxbAtlIxnYvCWlV4IwAQhEHfvudqYaIY3hNWrvQ6H GB2KXoTZYN9g5djm14/5nj1IU5zOcovkjJnKhoo9iStnpFF2cwARAQABtCdKb25hdGhhbiBT LiBLYXR6IDxqa2F0ekBwb3N0Z3Jlc3FsLm9yZz6JAlQEEwEIAD4CGwMFCQeGH4AFCwkIBwIG FQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQT6hLaVryv3miBkP/HxBJxynxxlJwUCW1KJJQAKCRDxBJxy nxxlJwjrD/kBgqsW4QpNpTFw7ifRokZV08CCX4huPBJQ91rrv+UEWlEcotFBHVkYyHnpzARl tcZxhJ9CbFxjniH9cOTty5T/O1yolbOHtZSW8Z8aWV6BVEbjMb+BFxSSLm7RnvJdzQbGCZq2 ZZvfVpB6z3EHYph4KDdVKvMFjoLskxmdS1DE0tE3zTxvoQsi24Q+HOS07kUjs6fsu/WICMfz mgO++AWG9Y0CvN0mm4TkujESzyKM9E5irD+leEMIcddl51Aa2c/VMfBXQbRmpHIgUFTmuHQD CnQih+9i3OJAksDg66SP8a7yiXv5mwvyDi1EfTGVKYR2j+pwyjwnC3oIbvDMmB3uTn2JIjnT iZKPVtAcAylXjubFltihQgNyuShdP4W+kBwZizhUFqUVL8Anx+KoytYmJPfMRFLGuK4obXKq a2ZS3k9KB+H+isOx2nFJOsc7V360Zp1DVaNmuiK10TT6QndShSPaqkJqFtCb6r92rZ9sZM/L 3vtCI4Rrl3Pt1MgtENXupS8gZpJnAYS0j5A1PAZ09r6ANoaeMHspF+5J5fOHeEvqphXr36mm a83Vl1t4orPb0+QmmijmlpseDU63M88Aw5p3c4qj7t8Qr2EZ5zrn7/sFn5wOfbs8Nymxafif QCnlV2vg9p0m7vSk/yLJ4PFZvs52FgqAGRCdRn0s2EC99bkCDQRbUocAARAAv8ho/toQ9DG3 j4f9h9n1aRHr2FlviN2Utpy6L8+dfDggO0geilmkGQOolZ2E60gGfye/kUtF9W3NByO4hxDR 9u6qbOXcdqnuA+cc68EfqlWFJrVtYFxt0h4ElWYOYnIezKthriWch/FY70FGrxs3z8UHOHq5 0wBW433eTvZm90WixBiXEt2v1DgW4Vr3ymfO7Aap/IYyPuE4JzgudAuAl0HKPyNEHWHG1dAb jX1RiCw9gknIDWQOF0B4UAaJctWGVcnZ3A2ULwNGMa1P9ZJlBWf1vcj01aiHMU0yQ7JjJiSp vfm9eM0uSLwRdDrJjyl5ZZqVumjdv2SMNQ8GvYRbEMys3GGDSt9zXgfCSUnPnJfYxjzBHRI6 x44Wfsx8S6hWxepOogCJJ/g67Bk9mY8YV4klWIXDJVOL5jnBC09DbsZG81JaE2QxB8Y7W36Z Mroi9XMxg3s805hQAQUvdG/poU8hN8BWdrnTm/+4eQQp7gDY1ePDmGM6bJC+OHOSnFtR/f+7 0zpKJ10cc7cBygGnl1yR3KjhFyAWUFvP4ZGziKCcpMwXZfe9PGuyA/YOubMphxIn3YsK2wrd faKZYX2GMZCZhMMcvx9IpQrxIJgU+VlwXu/O+Lk10VIPcxPJJwmpdI6HzcS8ZgG6IMcC444X XTuLaP8j2mgcMvYak3ScCykAEQEAAYkCPAQYAQgAJhYhBPqEtpWvK/eaIGQ/8fEEnHKfHGUn BQJbUocAAhsMBQkHhh+AAAoJEPEEnHKfHGUnReMP/RA2UhGQj+G4uBshkRLjpRysabdPqgQB dEBk6wYbio88Wg/2/hgY7UzmDDEwX3sZfQDcrI6+vIobI8uqstZID+WgAAa1JLfChMyVQnSy 0zfWMOABXscc5tGuvFRZvJklTissMFjXUwaREEKp4ZikTvJ/62MCjSdtrUhnPLvoTsHTKRKD ichE+b5A54alwsubTijw12O6N22r5IjZiiSZV0u7dsShyKw+7wCSax9fuBoE43NMYf+dnjMK nerAQYUcZWYMnk+EC8RaqYAxv6XZ2tKx1AkGGktwkQIBwrz9IlDSvJ3LWJ2UIIuLRTdngNgg GIL4zzuUa2F56FqskQIuYMaNETk6LYfalBDQ6TVLAcgCPQxp4k4i/PRsZ3lZ2ZhRHRYciOvm kp+I6EfHwllQpYrWs1thluBGqlJSVJgKl0IOFvKLsQ6KKfqzAwh6FxrO5qajp4viNIgtWoFw O5Bp0jgFTbH2OrMWIRfUdUCH1Djbuo65svhNj7FNsQVYzHDI+Nd1I/LOBoPc3UorRMF2M4JV kUR7skOHWUbPTSNUr7qc14NSMY3PKjGeVGAsBVHBPvmRx/Ss2tW/TpJWpxg4pmquFQSXuaYh Yf4FN8Sxy320pcr+FqN8AhZkYJcNY82OTtR5VEKRC/mYcyq61qXIKqngydn79bJjGxHipxyF FmEC Message-ID: <8eb0d254-5816-5317-2f37-49abbc2f8c2c@postgresql.org> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 10:30:33 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="X46TTThZQajvmlOKUEeU6bzuBx40qqXPR" X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 63.118.15.50 (failed) List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Precedence: bulk This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --X46TTThZQajvmlOKUEeU6bzuBx40qqXPR Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="3DFx348hQr7Z3rzOPnKh0yA49aAcJAJ7y"; protected-headers="v1" From: "Jonathan S. Katz" To: Peter Eisentraut , Jeff Davis , Stephen Frost , Michael Paquier Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Message-ID: <8eb0d254-5816-5317-2f37-49abbc2f8c2c@postgresql.org> Subject: Re: Add "password_protocol" connection parameter to libpq References: <227015d8417f2b4fef03f8966dbfa5cbcc4f44da.camel@j-davis.com> <20190809030021.GG3194@paquier.xyz> <3bbf5968ea705700a2605d6db74d8510bea7940b.camel@j-davis.com> <20190809100922.GI3194@paquier.xyz> <20190809132850.GL16436@tamriel.snowman.net> <609482826475e0063c7d71b2449ae31c0d61b232.camel@j-davis.com> <071e45a6-97f7-1614-371c-98ecb03aed65@postgresql.org> <7a7a2f07-d013-eb80-85ba-9edaaf845038@2ndquadrant.com> <75dff08d-12cd-9e85-97ec-d7db55e224a7@postgresql.org> In-Reply-To: --3DFx348hQr7Z3rzOPnKh0yA49aAcJAJ7y Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 8/11/19 3:56 PM, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > On 2019-08-11 21:46, Jonathan S. Katz wrote: >> On 8/11/19 1:00 PM, Peter Eisentraut wrote: >>> On 2019-08-09 23:56, Jeff Davis wrote: >>>> 1. Hierarchical semantics, where you specify the least-secure >>>> acceptable method: >>>> >>>> password_protocol =3D {any,md5,scram-sha-256,scram-sha-256-plus} >>> >>> What would the hierarchy be if scram-sha-512 and scram-sha-512-plus a= re >>> added? >> >> password_protocol =3D >> {any,md5,scram-sha-256,scram-sha-512,scram-sha-256-plus,scram-sha-512-= plus}? >> >> I'd put one length of digest over another, but I'd still rank a method= >> that uses channel binding has more protections than one that does not.= >=20 > Sure, but the opposite opinion is also possible. That's true, and when originally started composing my note I had it as (256,512,256-plus,512-plus). But upon further reflection, the reason I ranked the digest-plus methods above the digest methods is that there is any additional requirement imposed by them. The digest methods could be invoked either with/without TLS, whereas the digest-plus methods *must* use TLS. As such, 256-plus is explicitly asking for an additional security parameter over 512, i.e. transmission over TLS, so even if it's a smaller digest, it has the additional channel binding requirement. Jonathan --3DFx348hQr7Z3rzOPnKh0yA49aAcJAJ7y-- --X46TTThZQajvmlOKUEeU6bzuBx40qqXPR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE+oS2la8r95ogZD/x8QSccp8cZScFAl1ReAkACgkQ8QSccp8c ZSf47w//WAFynA5E58SuPztIpl+/dzF9ntmA06uOteFTQ6+x2ffDE2XMKC5IkHaG s7h21Q/HtY0vQ7+eOwEcBtecan0ipYHHsk1pGIATVFn0YZzyp/xCsjQiyqtwkvsI DBKauK9eHd5rr2IXKS1S++iTKUWM/5O/hbN5oY9TzpXQAIuuUGHm8E1VkflWubSh Z8Q+il28rPGoQavcqU8y7gHwhVW4Ww/Jn5Rfm35sWILomoLOjn3uOg3dknTgLWAY NBHayXLH1aRkht0muW1pkvMevSw0b9OqUUSSN/9xNN9c/HPRVPV/IZP7o9vkqQJO PfgEv/cogBxIm5mC+twz+cGdkUy5wUWaVcEUoPBaQLJDI5QqzYvFuqCTf0Kp3vQp ESifUOphczGPpM59R6OusqVRPEbYAbu6xta5GcP9gbfh3JPOKUbhpbp9gtyQHEtg UgEuNrCsCu4r6J7Iolwbq9lWGb5C3+wS+cNmDKDMvNrG6InzNICo5ovZA496plQq D5u9wdSctqxydHoH8bI5yObTN4pv8A/O5LrKrAgNYZf4MqtWZtlrng4vnwy16UXP U1WsIKyeDzkIyLKWSVDP4CFXgSzoz1hADil5qJeYgBdWT+k03AQ1WtXUZvQfnDTz vvwPoUGwMWc4DG+cLbNoClhJ3liQchHDo9mQfw1PoRCBCAvNPm8= =p+XC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --X46TTThZQajvmlOKUEeU6bzuBx40qqXPR--