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In-Reply-To: 
 <CAJDiXgj3A=wNC-S0z3TixmnVUkifs=07yLLHJ7_+dDsakft1tA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2026 14:19:41 -0700
Message-ID: 
 <CAD21AoAvZc6Rwi1hZ7x+U3vz7AMMSpcbQ2JBn6+WmQp-3yfKMg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: POC: Parallel processing of indexes in autovacuum
To: Daniil Davydov <3danissimo@gmail.com>
Cc: SATYANARAYANA NARLAPURAM <satyanarlapuram@gmail.com>,
	Bharath Rupireddy <bharath.rupireddyforpostgres@gmail.com>,
 Sami Imseih <samimseih@gmail.com>,
	Alexander Korotkov <aekorotkov@gmail.com>,
 Matheus Alcantara <matheusssilv97@gmail.com>,
	Maxim Orlov <orlovmg@gmail.com>,
 Postgres hackers <pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Archived-At: 
 <https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CAD21AoAvZc6Rwi1hZ7x%2BU3vz7AMMSpcbQ2JBn6%2BWmQp-3yfKMg%40mail.gmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

On Tue, Mar 31, 2026 at 7:18=E2=80=AFAM Daniil Davydov <3danissimo@gmail.co=
m> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Mar 31, 2026 at 2:09=E2=80=AFPM Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmai=
l.com> wrote:
> >
> > I've made some changes to the documentation part, merged two patches
> > into one, and updated the commit message. Please review the attached
> > patch.
> >
>
> Great, thank you very much!
>
> Again, I don't know how to write the documentation well, so you can ignor=
e
> my comments :
>
> > +    <command>VACUUM</command> can perform index vacuuming and index cl=
eanup
> Don't we need to mention autovacuum here too? I thought that VACUUM in th=
e
> context means "manual VACUUM command".

I think that the documentation explains that the autovacuum daemon is
a worker automatically executing VACUUM and ANALYZE commands.

>
> > + ...applies specifically to the index vacuuming and index cleanup phas=
es...
> Maybe we can refer to "vacuum-phases" here?

Agreed.

>
> All other changes look good to me.
>
> !!!
> > Searching for arguments in
> > favor of opt-in style, I asked for help from another person who has bee=
n
> > managing the setup of highload systems for decades. He promised to shar=
e his
> > opinion next week.
>
> I talked to Anton Doroshkevich today.

Thank you for sharing!

> He confirmed that as a rule there are *hundreds of thousands* of tables i=
n the
> system, the vast majority of which do not need to be vacuumed in parallel=
 mode.

I'm still struggling to see the technical justification; why would a
user want to avoid parallel vacuuming on eligible tables if they have
already explicitly allowed the system to use more resources by setting
autovacuum_max_parallel_workers to >0? If resource contention occurs,
it is typically a sign that the global parameters need re-tuning. As I
mentioned, the same contention can occur even with an opt-in style if
multiple tables are manually configured.

Also, I'm concerned that opt-in style could confuse users since
parallel vacuum is enabled by default in VACUUM command.

> He also suggested the following : let the reloption overlap the value of =
the
> GUC parameter. I.e. even if av_max_parallel_workers parameters is 0 the u=
ser
> still can set the av_parallel_workers to 10 for some table, and autovacuu=
m
> will process this table in parallel.
>
> I remember that you want to use the GUC parameter as a global switch, and=
 this
> approach will break this logic. But according to Anton's words, it is oka=
y if
> the GUC parameter cannot disable parallel a/v for all tables instantly. I=
t will
> become an administrator's responsibility to manually turn off parallel a/=
v for
> several tables (again, it is completely OK). Thus, this feature can be ha=
ndy
> for all use cases.

While some autovacuum parameters do override GUCs, those are typically
local to the process (like cost delay). Parallel workers, however, are
a shared system-wide resource. In a multi-tenant environment, allowing
a single table's reloption to bypass the
autovacuum_max_parallel_workers =3D 0 limit could lead to unexpected
exhaustion of the worker pool. I think that this GUC should act as a
reliable global switch for resource management.

> I hope it doesn't look like as an adapting to the needs of a specific use=
r.
> A lot of super-large productions are migrating to postgres now, and I bel=
ieve
> that we should ensure their comfort too.

I'm not prioritizing one specific use case over another. I believe
that there are also users who want to use parallel vacuum on hundreds
of thousands of tables. We should consider a better solution while
checking it from multiple perspectives such as the usability, the
robustness and consistency with the existing features and behaviors
etc.

Regards,

--=20
Masahiko Sawada
Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com