Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nFgwP-0007CT-8j for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2022 18:34:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nFgwO-00021r-4a for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2022 18:34:44 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nFgwN-00021i-FE for pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2022 18:34:43 +0000 Received: from mail-oo1-xc2e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2e]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nFgwK-00084s-7G for pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2022 18:34:42 +0000 Received: by mail-oo1-xc2e.google.com with SMTP id r15-20020a4ae5cf000000b002edba1d3349so2257720oov.3 for ; Thu, 03 Feb 2022 10:34:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=enterprisedb.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=viTCUxdd3oErePzEnDvdFgC3iLFmzXcPGPy32QzyLKo=; b=mZLGHZ1HsO9YRwyADaX7qAS4VBVXsAcJZhvvZecfZW5qTVVmo6ceYzAucHdlIfEPK5 XEyKLmF7qkH4h8IDjQ2W6xNDIF9H+bcYsa59qRJYhvoNyR9WdLC0feIkHtEJfneMHG+g h342L5334Ty9D946N8irFHSCFpRLGb0rOVSlqkTg1D6CDvHEpNsBROpSW+j1Xe9uVTvJ U+d41BYRC0Jzx2w6DgdabnXSeyazlyv2dtJvqxPPBl7nViLWeiyl0an0g6++74jqo35w nhgvb59D9amZuNgWbPKybPwgMnBvZDUeEaV1/Lh8wZAh4EiD+xMTOy48LP6JrV1bKiYI G62A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=viTCUxdd3oErePzEnDvdFgC3iLFmzXcPGPy32QzyLKo=; b=OdCugK93IFU/E2PbvxDjqeIY5/EN0n8MD/Cr0yQSJd7n+HvtVRDJ/gNyvJzA52UVja U8B1d/zSwVevXINKoJQzmt+1H0QAnxuiSTQ0Vkm+Wc6XDJRKp0SoTpzM3XleI9d+iIiN xiZVAtcs/XRg4bHFRsHRa2IYEuvoFuhfqZ137+OUUFZyx3HaplCWj6n7vs73XL26d6OZ N0y0WHLLO4JocvQvx8q1IItc8gbKAjQ/Z1zqeGEw++x1CO0dXlOhgmp0s4agDdjmUzCZ 0kd4S9fF/GYBW0o8+zQWggLxvQAk/fzwgN23sYDPJbLtha5YPIVJthBROyqG5OKDgUUI 3DSw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532YeyPUkxEiIFESI4EBYKV9u8I5zV9vcdtBqIb7JOEaG5VRD+Tt 17wzwYkyJw5EQafLsU32sizOrZg+bq9CLyjG3SSbSyn1CjUHh7zqs+K2IzQj/BGsGDmQXZGBIvz BzFYcWhUIfkBDgxwbUrVeVJiPmnaVwDqxsS84kILzSKwFtCBQQo6gx7aUOLFaMvB/V6flTLAOx4 ICqvOfQWyGituF3/K75blrjg7pI0oPBztGLd29QDqR9OSYZHY+UYgoEZIXC8vWakqT0sMpKxRHP A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwPawZXTSfymCqueH80ofTXPY5mL2aseor/8RmXwYa3+5/Z9eEAJbRcuOgEA31+MIzYfX+/sqUdQbfaGHiWZtk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:8c10:: with SMTP id ec16mr454057oab.19.1643913279453; Thu, 03 Feb 2022 10:34:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20211210015616.o242b4xchhpglfcy@alap3.anarazel.de> In-Reply-To: From: John Naylor Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2022 13:34:28 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: do only critical work during single-user vacuum? To: Robert Haas Cc: Andres Freund , Peter Geoghegan , PostgreSQL Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-CLOUD-SEC-AV-Info: enterprisedb,google_mail,monitor X-CLOUD-SEC-AV-Sent: true X-Gm-Spam: 0 X-Gm-Phishy: 0 List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 1:06 PM Robert Haas wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 8:56 PM Andres Freund wrote: > > I think we should move *away* from single user mode, rather than the > > opposite. It's a substantial code burden and it's hard to use. > > Yes. This thread seems to be largely devoted to the topic of making > single-user vacuum work better, but I don't see anyone asking the > question "why do we have a message that tells people to vacuum in > single user mode in the first place?". It's basically bad advice, with > one small exception that I'll talk about in a minute. The word "advice" sounds like people have a choice, rather than the system not accepting commands anymore. It would be much less painful if the system closed connections and forbade all but superusers to connect, but that sounds like a lot of work. (happy to be proven otherwise) -- John Naylor EDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com