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Adding an explaining title to Notes on SGML
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* Adding an explaining title to Notes on SGML
@ 2026-04-22 18:59  Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread

From: Marcos Pegoraro @ 2026-04-22 18:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: pgsql-hackers

I noticed that a "This" was missing when reading the Notes of the
Aggregates page, so I thought... wouldn't it be better if we had a title in
some of the Notes ?
Because in many cases, like this example, you have a huge table and below
it a Notes. But what is this Notes talking about ?
If we had a title specifying exactly what it's about, it would be easier
for the user. In this example, there are dozens of aggregates but Notes
talks only for 2 of them.

There are 300 Notes on SGML files, I did these 2 Notes only to ask you if
this way is fine. And obviously would do them all if you think it's fine.

And additionally the title tag needs to have only
<title>bool_and and bool_or</title>
not
<title>Note on bool_and and bool_or</title>
But this I can change on XSL files to automatically add a title when it
exists.

Regards
Marcos


Attachments:

  [application/octet-stream] Adding an explaining title to Notes.diff (1.6K, 3-Adding%20an%20explaining%20title%20to%20Notes.diff)
  download | inline diff:
From c4819f375b032ed18b3d1c39a4d781a3ea70c04a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: PegoraroF10 <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 15:37:41 -0300
Subject: [PATCH] Sometimes we have a Notes tag but it doesn't specify about
 what it is talking. So if we add a <title> to it then user doesn't need to
 read all that Note to see if it's important or not.

---
 doc/src/sgml/func/func-aggregate.sgml | 4 +++-
 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/func/func-aggregate.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/func/func-aggregate.sgml
index 8b5eaeb2e94..6f92f737d58 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/func/func-aggregate.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/func/func-aggregate.sgml
@@ -696,6 +696,7 @@ SELECT xmlagg(x) FROM (SELECT x FROM test ORDER BY y DESC) AS tab;
   </para>
 
   <note>
+    <title>Note on bool_and and bool_or</title>
     <indexterm>
       <primary>ANY</primary>
     </indexterm>
@@ -722,6 +723,7 @@ SELECT b1 = ANY((SELECT b2 FROM t2 ...)) FROM t1 ...;
   </note>
 
   <note>
+   <title>Note on count(*)</title>
    <para>
     Users accustomed to working with other SQL database management
     systems might be disappointed by the performance of the
@@ -730,7 +732,7 @@ SELECT b1 = ANY((SELECT b2 FROM t2 ...)) FROM t1 ...;
 <programlisting>
 SELECT count(*) FROM sometable;
 </programlisting>
-    will require effort proportional to the size of the table:
+    This will require effort proportional to the size of the table:
     <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> will need to scan either the
     entire table or the entirety of an index that includes all rows in
     the table.
-- 
2.51.2.windows.1



^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Adding an explaining title to Notes on SGML
@ 2026-04-23 07:55  Daniel Gustafsson <[email protected]>
  parent: Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread

From: Daniel Gustafsson @ 2026-04-23 07:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-hackers

> On 22 Apr 2026, at 20:59, Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I noticed that a "This" was missing when reading the Notes of the Aggregates page, so I thought... wouldn't it be better if we had a title in some of the Notes ? 
> Because in many cases, like this example, you have a huge table and below it a Notes. But what is this Notes talking about ? 

Notes are IMHO useful when they cause the reader to reflect on the <para> they
just read.

I think it's an antipattern to have notes so far removed from the relevant
<para> that we need a title for it.  A reader looking for info on count() will
find it in the table and read it - we can't really expect them to keep
scrolling a few pages down to see if there might be more info that wasn't
linked to.

Wouldn't it make more sense to refactor to move the information in the note
closer to what the note is regarding?

--
Daniel Gustafsson






^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Adding an explaining title to Notes on SGML
@ 2026-04-23 12:13  Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>
  parent: Daniel Gustafsson <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread

From: Marcos Pegoraro @ 2026-04-23 12:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Daniel Gustafsson <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-hackers

Em qui., 23 de abr. de 2026 às 04:55, Daniel Gustafsson <[email protected]>
escreveu:

> Wouldn't it make more sense to refactor to move the information in the note
> closer to what the note is regarding?


Fine, I agree that that Note is probably not read because it is so far. And
we could do the same thing for footnotes, these appear very, very far from
the text they refer to. But the problem is how to display these notes.
In this example, the aggregates table is huge, and it wouldn't be
interesting to break it up just because of a note.
Also, a note refers to two items in the table, which are bool_and and
bool_or, so what do we do ? Repeat the information ?

regards
Marcos


^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Adding an explaining title to Notes on SGML
@ 2026-04-23 12:27  David G. Johnston <[email protected]>
  parent: Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread

From: David G. Johnston @ 2026-04-23 12:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>; +Cc: Daniel Gustafsson <[email protected]>; pgsql-hackers

On Thursday, April 23, 2026, Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]> wrote:

> Em qui., 23 de abr. de 2026 às 04:55, Daniel Gustafsson <[email protected]>
> escreveu:
>
>> Wouldn't it make more sense to refactor to move the information in the
>> note
>> closer to what the note is regarding?
>
>
> Also, a note refers to two items in the table, which are bool_and and
> bool_or, so what do we do ? Repeat the information ?
>

Personally, I’d like to do two things here instead of a note.  Use a
footnote, but add entries for any/some to the table and use the description
to say they are not implemented and to use bool_and/bool_or instead, then
anchor the footnote at these entries.

That way, people looking for these SQL standard functions actually find
them where they expect and understand why they are missing.  Index entries
wouldn’t hurt.

The note actually seems counter-productive for the typical PostgreSQL user
who doesn’t even know what is in the standard.  And an unintuitive place to
look if you know the function names already.

David J.


^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Adding an explaining title to Notes on SGML
@ 2026-04-23 13:33  Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>
  parent: David G. Johnston <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread

From: Marcos Pegoraro @ 2026-04-23 13:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: David G. Johnston <[email protected]>; +Cc: Daniel Gustafsson <[email protected]>; pgsql-hackers

Em qui., 23 de abr. de 2026 às 09:27, David G. Johnston <
[email protected]> escreveu:

> Use a footnote, but add entries for any/some to the table and use the
>> description to say they are not implemented and to use bool_and/bool_or
>> instead, then anchor the footnote at these entries.
>>
>
Honestly, I'd like to remove all footnotes. The watermark identifying them
is so small that many people don't even see that it's a link, and the fact
that it's at the bottom of the page makes it even more isolated from the
text it refers to.
Another thing I've been thinking about is the "see below". Because it
doesn't have a link and in some cases is placed within a large paragraph,
that "see below" appears very far away, and the user also doesn't know how
to find it.

Perhaps we can find a better way to display notes, footnotes, and see below.

regards
Marcos


^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Adding an explaining title to Notes on SGML
@ 2026-04-23 13:50  David G. Johnston <[email protected]>
  parent: Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread

From: David G. Johnston @ 2026-04-23 13:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>; +Cc: Daniel Gustafsson <[email protected]>; pgsql-hackers

On Thu, Apr 23, 2026 at 6:34 AM Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]> wrote:

> Em qui., 23 de abr. de 2026 às 09:27, David G. Johnston <
> [email protected]> escreveu:
>
>> Use a footnote, but add entries for any/some to the table and use the
>>> description to say they are not implemented and to use bool_and/bool_or
>>> instead, then anchor the footnote at these entries.
>>>
>>
> Honestly, I'd like to remove all footnotes. The watermark identifying them
> is so small that many people don't even see that it's a link, and the fact
> that it's at the bottom of the page makes it even more isolated from the
> text it refers to.
>

This seems solvable in the xslt/CSS.  Instead of traditional superscript
print the link at normal-ish size with normal underline indicator for it
being a link.  On the website we could possibly even code in a tooltip on
hover to show the note content without clicking or scrolling the page.  And
in this case choosing not to follow the footnote only means one loses out
on understanding why we didn't implement any/some aggregates, not that main
info, which is repeated for each, that they are not implemented.  I'd call
that a top-tier example of when to use a footnote.  And agree we can do
better styling it.

David J.


^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Adding an explaining title to Notes on SGML
@ 2026-04-23 14:09  Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>
  parent: David G. Johnston <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread

From: Marcos Pegoraro @ 2026-04-23 14:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: David G. Johnston <[email protected]>; +Cc: Daniel Gustafsson <[email protected]>; pgsql-hackers

Em qui., 23 de abr. de 2026 às 10:51, David G. Johnston <
[email protected]> escreveu:

> On the website we could possibly even code in a tooltip on hover to show
> the note content without clicking or scrolling the page.
>

That's fine, but you need to remember that when using tablets and phones we
don't have a mouse, therefore hovering isn't an option.

regards
Marcos


^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Adding an explaining title to Notes on SGML
@ 2026-04-25 13:35  Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
  parent: Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread

From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2026-04-25 13:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>; David G. Johnston <[email protected]>; +Cc: Daniel Gustafsson <[email protected]>; pgsql-hackers

On 23.04.26 15:33, Marcos Pegoraro wrote:
> Em qui., 23 de abr. de 2026 às 09:27, David G. Johnston 
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> escreveu:
> 
>         Use a footnote, but add entries for any/some to the table and
>         use the description to say they are not implemented and to use
>         bool_and/bool_or instead, then anchor the footnote at these entries.
> 
> 
> Honestly, I'd like to remove all footnotes. The watermark identifying 
> them is so small that many people don't even see that it's a link, and 
> the fact that it's at the bottom of the page makes it even more isolated 
> from the text it refers to.
> Another thing I've been thinking about is the "see below". Because it 
> doesn't have a link and in some cases is placed within a large 
> paragraph, that "see below" appears very far away, and the user also 
> doesn't know how to find it.

I agree, new footnotes should be avoided.






^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread


end of thread, other threads:[~2026-04-25 13:35 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2026-04-22 18:59 Adding an explaining title to Notes on SGML Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>
2026-04-23 07:55 ` Daniel Gustafsson <[email protected]>
2026-04-23 12:13   ` Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>
2026-04-23 12:27     ` David G. Johnston <[email protected]>
2026-04-23 13:33       ` Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>
2026-04-23 13:50         ` David G. Johnston <[email protected]>
2026-04-23 14:09           ` Marcos Pegoraro <[email protected]>
2026-04-25 13:35         ` Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>

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