MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CANNMO++9W_UA8PB9AkDRF3JBv4K7K1FnisrXTjicL+WZhwUJzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+TgmoZF7PbO7DB_VMQS4664EgOdObhFtAoLUb83bp3i-623UQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CA+TgmoZF7PbO7DB_VMQS4664EgOdObhFtAoLUb83bp3i-623UQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Nikolay Samokhvalov <samokhvalov@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 10:24:36 -0800
Message-ID: <CANNMO++d9CKuJEzSnRWFCHcmKr2DGASTtEMZ9bpEYHSa4QFQvA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Proposals for EXPLAIN: rename ANALYZE to EXECUTE and extend VERBOSE
To: Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>
Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002a54a806262e842a"
Archived-At: <https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CANNMO%2B%2Bd9CKuJEzSnRWFCHcmKr2DGASTtEMZ9bpEYHSa4QFQvA%40mail.gmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

--0000000000002a54a806262e842a
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 10:19=E2=80=AFAM Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>=
 wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 1:02=E2=80=AFPM Nikolay Samokhvalov
> <samokhvalov@gmail.com> wrote:
> > hi, I have a proposal, resulted from numerous communications with
> various folks, both very experienced and new Postgres users:
> >
> > 1) EXPLAIN ANALYZE Is sometimes very confusing (because there is
> ANALYZE). Let's rename it to EXPLAIN EXECUTE?
>
> The trouble is that EXPLAIN EXECUTE already means something.
>
> robert.haas=3D# explain execute foo;
> ERROR:  prepared statement "foo" does not exist
>
> Granted, that would not make it impossible to make EXPLAIN (EXECUTE) a
> synonym for EXPLAIN (ANALYZE), but IMHO it would be pretty confusing
> if EXPLAIN EXECUTE and EXPLAIN (EXECUTE) did different things.
>
> > 2) VERBOSE doesn't include BUFFERS, and doesn't include SETTINGS; it
> might be also confusing sometimes. Let's include them so VERBOSE would be
> really verbose?
>
> I agree that the naming here isn't great, but I think making the
> options non-orthogonal would probably be worse.
>
> > 3) small thing about grammar: allow omitting parentheses, so EXPLAIN
> EXECUTE VERBOSE would work.
>
> Perhaps surprisingly, it turns out that this is not a small change. As
> Tom mentions, this would have a pretty large blast radius. In fact,
> the reason I wrote the patch to introduce parenthesized options for
> EXPLAIN was precisely because the unparenthesized option syntax does
> not scale nicely at all.
>

I appreciate all yours and Tom's very quick comments here!

Item 3 is already solved, as it turned out.

Let's focus on item 2. Is it really impossible to make VERBOSE really
verbose?

--0000000000002a54a806262e842a
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 10:19=E2=80=AFAM R=
obert Haas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robertmhaas@gmail.com">robertmhaas@gmail.c=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 1:02=E2=80=AFPM Nikolay=
 Samokhvalov<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:samokhvalov@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">samokhvalov@=
gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; hi, I have a proposal, resulted from numerous communications with vari=
ous folks, both very experienced and new Postgres users:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1) EXPLAIN ANALYZE Is sometimes very confusing (because there is ANALY=
ZE). Let&#39;s rename it to EXPLAIN EXECUTE?<br>
<br>
The trouble is that EXPLAIN EXECUTE already means something.<br>
<br>
robert.haas=3D# explain execute foo;<br>
ERROR:=C2=A0 prepared statement &quot;foo&quot; does not exist<br>
<br>
Granted, that would not make it impossible to make EXPLAIN (EXECUTE) a<br>
synonym for EXPLAIN (ANALYZE), but IMHO it would be pretty confusing<br>
if EXPLAIN EXECUTE and EXPLAIN (EXECUTE) did different things.<br>
<br>
&gt; 2) VERBOSE doesn&#39;t include BUFFERS, and doesn&#39;t include SETTIN=
GS; it might be also confusing sometimes. Let&#39;s include them so VERBOSE=
 would be really verbose?<br>
<br>
I agree that the naming here isn&#39;t great, but I think making the<br>
options non-orthogonal would probably be worse.<br>
<br>
&gt; 3) small thing about grammar: allow omitting parentheses, so EXPLAIN E=
XECUTE VERBOSE would work.<br>
<br>
Perhaps surprisingly, it turns out that this is not a small change. As<br>
Tom mentions, this would have a pretty large blast radius. In fact,<br>
the reason I wrote the patch to introduce parenthesized options for<br>
EXPLAIN was precisely because the unparenthesized option syntax does<br>
not scale nicely at all.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I appreciate a=
ll yours and Tom&#39;s very quick comments here!</div><div><br></div><div>I=
tem 3 is already solved, as it turned out.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Let=
&#39;s focus on item 2. Is it really impossible to make VERBOSE really verb=
ose?</div></div></div>

--0000000000002a54a806262e842a--