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From: Jacob Champion <jacob.champion@enterprisedb.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2024 12:30:53 -0700
Message-ID: <CAOYmi+mAVMo+sdBvwZTpsbxUo2ixjivAFo0H87xisUeoVzGa-w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RFC: adding pytest as a supported test framework
To: Noah Misch <noah@leadboat.com>
Cc: Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de>, Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net>, 
	PostgreSQL Hackers <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
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On Tue, Jun 11, 2024 at 4:48=E2=80=AFPM Noah Misch <noah@leadboat.com> wrot=
e:
> If we're going to test in a non-Perl language, I'd pick C over Python.

We already test in C, though? If the complaint is that those tests are
driven by Perl, I agree that something like libcheck or GTest or
whatever people are using nowadays would be nicer. But that can be
added at any point; the activation energy for a new C-based test
runner seems pretty small. IMO, there's no reason to pick it _over_
another language, when we already support C tests and agree that
developers need to be fluent in C.

> We'd need a library like today's Perl
> PostgreSQL::Test to make C-language tests nice, but the same would apply =
to
> any new language.

I think the effort required in rebuilding end-to-end tests in C is
going to be a lot different than in pretty much any other modern
high-level language, so I don't agree that "the same would apply".

For the five problem statements I put forward, I think C moves the
needle for zero of them. It neither solves the problems we have nor
gives us stronger tools to solve them ourselves. And for my personally
motivating use case of OAuth, where I need to manipulate HTTP and JSON
and TLS and so on and so forth, implementing all of that in C would be
an absolute nightmare. Given that choice, I would rather use Perl --
and that's saying something, because I like C a lot more than I like
Perl -- because it's the difference between being given a rusty but
still functional table saw, and being given a box of Legos to build a
"better" table saw, when all I want to do is cut a 2x4 in half and
move on with my work.

I will use the rusty saw if I have to. But I want to get a better saw
-- that somebody else with experience in making saws has constructed,
and other people are pretty happy with -- as opposed to building my
own.

> I also want the initial scope to be the new language coexisting with the
> existing Perl tests.

Strongly agreed.

Thanks,
--Jacob