Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 11:18:55 -0500
From: Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
To: Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net>
Cc: Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de>,
	David Christensen <david.christensen@crunchydata.com>,
	vignesh C <vignesh21@gmail.com>,
	Aleksander Alekseev <aleksander@timescale.com>,
	PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: Moving forward with TDE [PATCH v3]
Message-ID: <ZUkR79-MexkEKwfO@momjian.us>
References: <CAOxo6XJh95xPOpvTxuP_kiGRs8eHcaNrmy3kkzWrzWxvyVkKkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ7c6TMJGYGkgb7RKvwj7UkfLQ-TEVJ98_bz=rZpnQnjcD5CRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOxo6XLmZGvzgeEttHSJfHKQrY-rWk0xyK-JFcVe9qT4DbBf_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALDaNm1Mmv3OSX8cG7iptFAx9kc28Nk8FCxHrFumtksgQ8tMMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOxo6XLac9KL7UrfQr5+xfKgrSa==F_AghNbUkTA8ivYiYvjvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20231103023228.gz32vjx67jwzfh6h@alap3.anarazel.de>
 <ZUj+pfXH+aNgTHIu@tamriel.snowman.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <ZUj+pfXH+aNgTHIu@tamriel.snowman.net>
Archived-At: <https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/ZUkR79-MexkEKwfO%40momjian.us>
Precedence: bulk

On Mon, Nov  6, 2023 at 09:56:37AM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote:
> The gist is, without a suggestion of things to try, we're left
> to our own devices to try and figure out things which might be
> successful, only to have those turned down too when we come back with
> them, see [1] for what feels like an example of this.  Given your
> feedback overall, which I'm very thankful for, I'm hopeful that you see
> that this is, indeed, a useful feature that people are asking for and
> therefore are willing to spend some time on it, but if the feedback is
> that nothing on the page is acceptable to use for the nonce, we can't
> put the nonce somewhere else, and we can't change the page format, then
> everything else is just moving deck chairs around on the titanic that
> has been this effort.

Yeah, I know the feeling, though I thought XTS was immune enough to
nonce/LSN reuse that it was acceptable.

What got me sunk on the feature was the complexity of adding temporary
file encryption support and that tipped the scales in the negative for
me in community value of the feature vs. added complexity. (Yeah, I used
a Titanic reference in the last sentence. ;-) )  However, I am open to
the community value and complexity values changing over time.  My blog
post on the topic:

	https://momjian.us/main/blogs/pgblog/2023.html#October_19_2023

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Only you can decide what is important to you.